D&D (2024) Polymorph temp hp remain

[stargazer_dragon]

The problem with spells is that this distinction is not explicitly made, so people are poking holes at the rules to see what sticks. WotC assumes that players will follow the Concentration rules since it says spell effects end when concentration ends, but because spells like Polymorph don't have that specific line that the Barbarian feature has, then this must mean that they follow standard THP rules. We will continue to have this debate until errata comes out because there will be players who will stick with their conclusions until official ruling comes out.


There are only 4 spells in the 2024 PHB that grant THP and have Concentration: Polymorph, True Polymorph, Shapechange and Heroism. Of those, the only Heroism specifies that its effect ends with the duration.

The best argument for Polymorph and true Polymorph is where the Temp HP section is located.

Because, it is located in the section that specifically details out effects of the shape shift, and since all other detailed effects of the shape shift end with the shape shift. (though it really should have been called out more clearly)

There is a solid argument that the Temp HP end when the other effects and and that if the Temp HP not have a description of when it ends, the other effects lack of a description must also mean they remain.

Also side note, that concentration section is largely being taken out of context. already made a post on that though, but I would urge you to read it more carefully.

That said shapechange is a different beast, but it has more issues then just when they go away, and is a 9th level spell so meh.

 

[stargazer_dragon]

You looked up in the wrong place.

Duration under spells:

A spell’s duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast. A duration typically takes one of the following forms:

Concentration. A duration that requires Concentration follows the Concentration rules (see the rules glossary).

Instantaneous. An instantaneous duration means the spell’s magic appears only for a moment and then disappears.

Time Span. A duration that provides a time span specifies how long the spell lasts in rounds, minutes, hours, or the like. For example, a Duration entry might say “1 minute,” meaning the spell ends after 1 minute has passed. While a time-span spell that you cast is ongoing, you can dismiss it (no action required) if you don’t have the Incapacitated condition.

Not sure what you are indicating here, though a older post now. Nothing in the duration of a spell indicates that Temp HP or any other effect of a spell ends. In fact the spells pretty consistently all call out when there effects end.

They do this specifically because the general rules for spells do not state a spells effects end when the spell ends, leaving it intentionally vague so that each spell can detail out how it functions.

Duration specifically simply says when a spell ends, be that when concentration is lost, when you end it/time runs out, or right after you cast it.

 

[stargazer_dragon]

That is not a duration.


Everything a spell does is its effect. Everything which has a duration that a spell does ends when the spell's duration ends.

Where are you getting that all effects of a spell end when the spell ends? Most spells do indeed work that way and they call out such specifically in the spell so that we know this. But as a general rule where are you getting this from?

 

[stargazer_dragon]

The temporary hit points are an effect of the spell, and the rules for concentration state that you lose the effects of the spell when you lose concentration. Therefore, once you lose concentration, you lose the temporary hit points as well.

The rules for concentration do not say this. Though I can see where it could be misread as such, you need to look at the full context of concentration.

Concentration simply details when the spell ends, not what happens when the spell ends. See my other post if you need more elaborations on this.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Not sure what you are indicating here, though a older post now. Nothing in the duration of a spell indicates that Temp HP or any other effect of a spell ends. In fact the spells pretty consistently all call out when there effects end.

They do this specifically because the general rules for spells do not state a spells effects end when the spell ends, leaving it intentionally vague so that each spell can detail out how it functions.

Duration specifically simply says when a spell ends, be that when concentration is lost, when you end it/time runs out, or right after you cast it.

Play as you like. Have fun.

 

[pnewman]

What about Warforged? Since they don't need to sleep they could just chose not to take Long Rests ever. Then the temporary Ht Points would last until they were used up. The Warforged could instead chose to take several Short Rests in a row, since most classes now get some resources back on a Short Rest. If a character has X uses of a class feature and they get one back on a Short Rest than they can get them all back with X Short Rests. They won't get their hit dice back, since that requires a Long Rest, but with 157 temporary hit points they may not need to spend their hit dice in the first place.

 

[James Gasik]

Never mind, nothing to see here.

EDIT: I was going to make a comment about Warforged and polymorph, then realized it wasn't relevant, and that my brain was tired and needed that mysterious thing called "rest".

 

[ezo]

There is a gross misreading of the concentration section in this. Please pay extra attention to the bolded parts

LOL whatever. This thread was dead over two months ago... moving on.

 

[stargazer_dragon]

LOL whatever. This thread was dead over two months ago... moving on.

well I mean one could make a new thread, but it seamed to make more sense to continue the conversation here.

But if you are uninterested, enjoy all the same

 

[stargazer_dragon]

Play as you like. Have fun.

I assume all here will, but it does not mean I have no interest in how others interpenetrate things, and I enjoy a good debate on something. If it changes or does not change how I or others play isn't really the point. But perhaps that stance is not one you share.