D&D (2024) Polymorph temp hp remain

[FrogReaver]

Even if you end concentration the polymorph temp hp stay up for the day. There’s no clause in the spell indicating they end early.

So one could give a level 7 pc 157 temp hp (by transforming into a giant ape) and then immediately drop concentration so class abilities can be used, along with much higher ac.

 

[ezo]

Yep! No power up there...

What is more, even if you wanted to keep concentration and remained in polymorphed form, if your temp HP get low, any new higher source of temp HP can replace the current lower value--in a manner "healing" the polymorphed form.

Like with Power Word Fortify...

Man, they really went temp HP crazy in 2024 lol!

 

[Will Brandiman]

Suspect that one will be houseruled until an errata or sage advice comes out. No way it's intentional.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yep! No power up there...

Yes but monsters likely are too. Like the lion in the 2024 pHB gets multiattack and pack tactics and can replace one attack with a roar that causes fear to one creature. Contrast to 2014 where there was no multiattack or roar. Just pack tactics a prone ability.

So there’s evidence monsters get stronger too.

What is more, even if you wanted to keep concentration and remained in polymorphed form, if your temp HP get low, any new higher source of temp HP can replace the current lower value--in a manner "healing" the polymorphed form.

Like with Power Word Fortify...

Man, they really went temp HP crazy in 2024 lol!

yea but unless there are much stronger beasts then that’s a bit less useful overall.

 

[ezo]

Yes but monsters likely are too. Like the lion in the 2024 pHB gets multiattack and pack tactics and can replace one attack with a roar that causes fear to one creature. Contrast to 2014 where there was no multiattack or roar. Just pack tactics a prone ability.

So there’s evidence monsters get stronger too.

Oh, yeah, I realize that...

But again, just more "stuff" and likely much of it practically useless (like the Lion's roar action...). Also, not a fan of the "rend" actions replacing different type of attacks which should do different damage.

yea but unless there are much stronger beasts then that’s a bit less useful overall.

Sure, just an example...

 

[OB1]

The temporary hit points are an effect of the spell, and the rules for concentration state that you lose the effects of the spell when you lose concentration. Therefore, once you lose concentration, you lose the temporary hit points as well.

 

[FrogReaver]

Oh, yeah, I realize that...

Then maybe try to square it with your initial complaint about ‘no powerup there ’

But again, just more "stuff" and likely much of it practically useless (like the Lion's roar action...).

The roar only takes 1 attack now, not both. I don’t think it will be useless. Lions can use it to help isolate and gang up on 1 pc.

Also, not a fan of the "rend" actions replacing different type of attacks which should do different damage.

Okay, but no real bearing on a discussion about pc power up, or am I missing something?

Sure, just an example...

Of what exactly? A way that might can be useful that really isn’t that strong? I don’t get the point of an example like that.

 

[FrogReaver]

The temporary hit points are an effect of the spell, and the rules for concentration state that you lose the effects of the spell when you lose concentration. Therefore, once you lose concentration, you lose the temporary hit points as well.

The specific rule on temporary hp is on pHB 2024 pg 29. They last until they are depleted or you finish a long rest.

 

[ezo]

Then maybe try to square it with your initial complaint about ‘no powerup there ’

No squaring needed. The whole game is a powerup over all, favoring the players in general.

The roar only takes 1 attack now, not both.

Duh... I read it.

I don’t think it will be useless. Lions can use it to help isolate and gang up on 1 pc.

They gang up on one PC with pack tactics, the roar will be virtually useless and attacking again will be done 90+% of the time as the point is to defeat the PC, not scare them. With the duration it has, it is laughable IMO.

Okay, but no real bearing on a discussion about pc power up, or am I missing something?

Just an aside... not everything has to deal directly with the discussion at hand.

Of what exactly? A way that might can be useful that really isn’t that strong? I don’t get the point of an example like that.

It is an example of how in the case when you do want to keep the polymorphed shape (due to other factors like movement types, etc.--use your imagination) you can actually "heal" the polymorph temp HP to help keep the shape longer when otherwise additional damage would result in losing the form when the spell ends. Do you get it now?

Power word Fortify was an easy example, since it was right after Polymorph on the page (like, literally the next spell).

 

[FrogReaver]

No squaring needed. The whole game is a powerup over all, favoring the players in general.

We don’t know that yet.

Duh... I read it.


They gang up on one PC with pack tactics, the roar will be virtually useless and attacking again will be done 90+% of the time as the point is to defeat the PC, not scare them. With the duration it has, it is laughable IMO.

The duration part is a good point that I overlooked. I’m with you the roar is bad.

Just an aside... not everything has to deal directly with the discussion at hand.

agreed. But it comes across a bit weaseling when it isn’t acknowledged as such.

It is an example of how in the case when you do want to keep the polymorphed shape (due to other factors like movement types, etc.--use your imagination) you can actually "heal" the polymorph temp HP to help keep the shape longer when otherwise additional damage would result in losing the form when the spell ends. Do you get it now?

I got it the first time. I’m just not sure why that’s being cited as a power up at all. In 2014 you could either just heal to prolong the form or use one of those temp hp abilities. Now you can’t heal to prolong it and since it relies on temp hp, you can no longer stack big temp hp with the forms regular big hp. It reads more like a nerf. I’m struggling to think of a clear use case where 2024 lets you stay in the polymorphed form longer.

The only apparent buff is armor of Agatha’s and the massive polymorph temp hp combos.