D&D 5E Pondering Expanding Threw-Way Saves

[5ekyu]

So am interested in ant experience or input on the following idea for 5e alt-rule.

i have not usually been satisfied with "one save and whammy" type of effects where you get one save and then suffer ongoing effects. not so upset with damage that works that way because damage has so many variations and ways to recover/resist.

Now, in 5e there are some very noticeable mitigating options.

1 - Many lesser effects have a re-save every round, especially at lower levels.
2 - Some effects are one-and-done but also have "actions to counter" like being shook or out of sight of scary guy.
3 - When the effects are from spells - often concentration is involved.

So what i am considering is applying the three-way saves from death saves to ongoing effects that have one save and then you are afflicted for a duration.

This would also apply to effects from whatever source, including monster abilities that apply ongoing conditions that do not provide for round-by-round counters. So, a lot of grapples and restrains would be left as is... considered a type#1

idea would be simple: take FEAR.

Currently Fear works like this:
Your first save and you are Ok or affected. If affected you frighten and run away.
Get re-saves when you are out of sight of scary dude. Any one save ends effect.

In the revised case it would work like this:
Your first save and you are OK or affected until the end of your next turn. if affected frighten and run away.
At the end of your next turn you re-save (regardless of sighted or not) until the end of your next turn. if affected frighten and run away.
This repeats until you have three fails or three saves. At that point, the spell is either done for you or locked in.
Once locked in it continues for the duration - but you can still get re-saves for being out of sight.

Obviously any automatic counter like breaking concentration, Dispel Magic or other sort of counter defined by spell or circumstance can apply.

Some for a spell like suggestion or charms there would be no "negative reaction" that would come from a made save and realization of the effect until three saves were made.

Objective is to shift the focus from "one key save" to an "ongoing dramatic threat" that still leaves the possibility of resisting for a while and also not make the spells so much "hit or miss" as far as saves go.

So, thats the beginning... any ideas? Any obvious "need to consider" or "need to deal with this case"?

 

[Li Shenron]

So I guess that this applies both ways? So that if you pass the first save, you mark one success but next round you have to make the second save, otherwise every spell that is affected by this change is going to be significantly nerfed.

I think it's too much bookkeeping. At least when you do the death saves you aren't doing anything else on your turn and you can keep track of them. But for some other spells you'll be taking your turn and also keep track of how many success/failures so far (potentially up to four rounds), and hope no other spell will hit you in the meantime or then you'll have even more things to track.

If you want a chance at getting free from persistent spell effects, how about more simply adding a special combat action to the game, that for the cost of "one action" allows a new saving throw against an ongoing spell effect? This is quite consistent both with having already actions to get free from restraining effects (e.g. escape a grapple), and with many spells making you skip turns but allowing further saves (e.g. Hold Person).

 

[Dausuul]

I think this is a great idea for monster abilities, where you can control how much of it is flying around and where PCs are the expected targets. When a PC is hit by a "shutdown" effect, that player is left twiddling his or her thumbs, so it's good to add escape hatches.

I would not apply it to spells which are mainly used by players. Like Li Shenron said, too much bookkeeping. If a monster really needs debuff protection, that's what Legendary Resistance is for. Otherwise, I prefer fire and forget.

 

[5ekyu]

Li Shenron

Yes both ways. Need three fails for ongoing spell to lock in OR three successes for ongoing spell to stop trying.



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[jasper]

hmmm. No. Too much dice rolling. Ok jasper save on fear effect from the demon, second save on your second breakfast because your eggs were bad. Third save from the damage effect of the fireball. Oh Lich Shenron just cast shrink on you at the end of bob's init.
Jasper Yellow with +2 on the fear, blue -1 on second breakfast, red +6 on the fireball. Red high on my old white d20 on the shrink.

 

[Gadget]

IMHO, 5e has already gone a significant way to reduce the impact of "Save or Suck" type spells by using the methods mentioned in the original post. Especially compared to earlier editions of the game. Am I to assume that the OP feels they did not go far enough? Is there any example spells that would need this, besides fear (admittedly a fairly powerful spell)?