Pricing a ring of gravestrike

[Destil]

Tom -

Does your party include both a wizard and a cleric? Sorcerer? Psion? I'd give the group an item with a spell that would be usefull against undead that no one in the party can cast normally and let them have fun with UMD.

 

[brehobit]

This is the 3rd time this question has come up. Sorry I can't find the old ones... frankthedm and I have been involved in all three

Edit: found one: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=176861


I argue that this should not be a legal ring enchantment. Rather it is a +1 weapon bonus. Maybe +2 if you want to make it expensive....

Basic argument is bane is +2 to attack, and +2d6+2 to damage every time no matter what against undead. This is up to +10d6 (or so) damage, but only when a sneak attack is possible and only from someone that can do it. The bane strictly better until level 7 or so (+3d6 damage is certainly worse than +2 attack +2d6+2 damage). And even at +4d6 I'd call it something of a draw. Add in the fact that you probably only get a sneak attack off half the time, I'd call the two a draw until +7d6 or so. So +1 seems about right.



Mark

 

[Perun]

IIRC, a rogue in one of our campaigns found/bought/had it custom-made for 5,000 gp, usable 3/day.

 

[kerbarian]

This would not work. Activating a spell trigger item, even one of Swift spells, is a standard action. So, the Rogue could not both activate the wand and attack.

However, a Wand of Extend Spell Grave Strike would work. The Rogue could only attack every other round though.

That's exactly what I said -- a wand of extended grave strike.

It would only allow attacks every other round, but you'd get it for your AoO's every round, and you can move on the same round you use the wand to reposition for a full attack. For a rogue with 2 attacks per round and Opportunist, you could hopefully pull off:

Round 1: use wand and move adjacent to target
In between rounds: ally flanks target and attacks, rogue attacks via Opportunist (with grave strike)
Round 2: full attack (with grave strike)
In between rounds: ally attacks again, rogue attacks via Opportunist (with grave strike)
Round 3: loop to round 1

That would allow 4 attacks every 2 rounds. If you have to reposition once every two rounds anyway (and so can't get a full attack), that means you'd get 5 attacks every two rounds when not using the wand. So, under ideal circumstances, you could use the wand and still get 4/5 as many attacks as normal. Admittedly, those ideal circumstances may not work out too often, but you should at least be able to get more than half the normal number of attacks.

 

[KarinsDad]

That's exactly what I said -- a wand of extended grave strike.

Sorry, I must have been asleep when I read that.

 

[iceifur]

Well, for magical weapon bonus pricing ideas, you could always take a look at the ghost strike special ability from Libris Mortis (page 77). For a +2 enhancement, the enchanted melee weapon acts as a ghost touch weapon and allows critical hits and sneak attacks against incorporeal undead.

 

[Mistwell]

An Undead Bane weapon costs an extra 6000 GP on a +1 weapon and does an extra 2D6+2 damage (8000 GP).

An extra 10000 GP on a +2 weapon (18000 GP).
An extra 14000 GP on a +3 weapon (32000 GP).
An extra 18000 GP on a +4 weapon (50000 GP).
An extra 22000 GP on a +5 weapon (72000 GP).

Assuming, of course, that the weapon has no other properties.

The proposed Ring would do an extra 1D6 damage at level 1, 2D6 at level 3, ... up to 10D6 at level 19. Plus, it would stack with any weapon.

That's extremely potent. A lot more potent than the Undead Bane weapon. Even the +5 Undead Bane weapon only does an extra 2D6+5 damage (plus a little more for hitting more often). Compared to an extra 10D6 damage, that's pretty light.

So, the 10D6 version of item should cost considerably more than 72000 GP.

I would also put a limit on the maximum Sneak Attack damage possible. That way, there could be different versions of the Ring, all of them at a different cost:

+1D6: 2000 GP
+2D6: 8000 GP
+3D6: 18000 GP
+4D6: 32000 GP
+5D6: 50000 GP
+6D6: 72000 GP
+7D6: 98000 GP
+8D6: 128000 GP
+9D6: 162000 GP
+10D6: 200000 GP

Even thought many Rogues might get a cheaper one, very few would pony up for the more expensive ones. This, I think, is balanced.

Except you assume the weapon always does that damage, which it does not. Unlike a standard +2d6, this damage only happens under the right circumstances (flanking, flat footed, feint, etc...). The price should go down significantly because of that restrictive use. All this weapon does is allow an existing situational ability to function under new circumstances - not actually add the damage every time no matter who wields it (which is the type of ability you based your calculations off of).

 

[Shellman]

Do something that gives Gravestrike 3/day or something limited like that. This ability all the time is just awesome, but limited number of times it should be able to allow him to have his fun and keep the item balanced.

I agree 100%, limited uses per day would be acceptable. Otherwise the cost for the item to have a constant effect should be Epic level.

 

[Bad Paper]

I think Grave Strike is a damn stupid spell.

Rowport had it right: rogues can spend their time Aiding Another (excellent option) or healing, flanking, exploring. Heck, even harrying the Big Bad Lich so he can't get any spells off would be a good idea.

If you're going to allow a ring of grave strike, then I would make it intelligent so that it can activate the spell itself. And give it a massive ego score and an annoying special purpose. Make the PC suffer for the ability.

 

[KarinsDad]

Except you assume the weapon always does that damage, which it does not. Unlike a standard +2d6, this damage only happens under the right circumstances (flanking, flat footed, feint, etc...). The price should go down significantly because of that restrictive use. All this weapon does is allow an existing situational ability to function under new circumstances - not actually add the damage every time no matter who wields it (which is the type of ability you based your calculations off of).

Although it is true that flanks cannot always be done, this is DND we are talking about.

Greater Invisibility, Hide in Plain Sight, etc. are effects that most Rogues eventually get one way or another. And even flanking can typically be achieved nearly every round of combat. That changes this from something that can be used some of the time against undead to most of the time against undead.

Granted, the cost should also be based on how often undead show up in a campaign. If often, then that cost basis is not too high. If rare, then some lesser cost basis makes more sense.


Effectively, the WotC concept of "I am IMMUNE to this" ... "No you are not" is extremely annoying.

Immunity should mean immunity, not immunity until another splat book comes out.