Problem with high level wizards....

[SSquirrel]

how did raistlin take on half the dragon queens army, etc.

DM fiat, artistic license, the fact that it was a novel and not a game so it left them free to ignore things like rules in a RPG book that don't matter for what they are doing. Besides, Raistlin also had the help of Lady Crysania, she battled most of them.

 

[DFK!]

I do think the OP has a point though:

Some method to convert would be nice. I know WotC said that wasn't the intention since powers and spells don't exactly go together. However, maybe a raw XP- conversion or something? For example, a Ranger 12 with X amount of experience in 3e becomes a "character 15" with X+Y amount of experience.


I know translating power levels will be tough too, since most characters I can think of from 2e or 3e campaigns would trounce any of these 4e guys, but I'd like to see an attempt made to translate it.

 

[Shroomy]

I don't think that a direct conversion really is possible, though you can certainly try. If groups want to convert from 3.5 to 4e, they will have to look at their campaigns and try to figure out exactly what tier and level fits best. After that, its a matter of finding or creating homebrew stuff that captures the spirit of the 3.5e characters.

 

[SSquirrel]

Considering they have said a 1st level 4E is equal to about a 4th level 3E, I would say look at something in 4E about 3 levels lower than your 3E character if they are lower level. But the power curve isn't as steep in 4E as it is in 3E, so by 12th level in 3E the same or higher level in 4E may be appropriate. Make a new character of the same level and see if the power level feels about the same. If not, add levels until it does...unless you're more powerful now, then drop levels.

 

[ptolemy18]

Wizards got the nerf stick very, very bad. Its understandable in intent, but the execution went way beyond expectations. At least, upon first glance.

Just like the 4e designers promised from the very beginning, it seems like wizards have been totally nerfed and narrowed in favor of making melee characters awesomer. Not that there's anything bad about rogues actually kicking butt for a change, but personally, I think it sucks, and in large part reflects a preference for fighter-type characters on the part of the designers. (Then again, I have an obvious wizard preference, but what the hey.)

 

[ptolemy18]

4th ed is more about party's playing together as smart folk, linking their abilities and positioning to maximize effect and survivability.
If you cna't play as a group player...go play a computer game!

Not true. You can *TOTALLY* play high-level groups in 3e... groups of SPELLCASTERS that is!

Personally, I always loved spellcasting classes in 3e, because they are SOOOO VERSATILE and you can pretty much make 1,000,000 different kinds of character builds using the 3e "Sorcerer" or "Wizard" class alone. That kind of tinkering (hey! It's not minmaxing!) was my #1 joy.

It just feels right to me that, like in Dying Earth, when you get to be really high-level, the spellcasters dominate. This must be just my old-schoolness talking, of course... it's just my assumption that spellcasters are ultimately the awesomest because brains triumph over brawn. It's the same reason I like "Doctor Who" (some dude saves the day with a weird arcane solution to every problem) more than "Star Wars" (some dude on a quest with a sword) or "Star Trek" (some team of people with heavy weapons).

Playing a high-level 3e melee character, to me, had the same appeal as playing "Dan" in the Street Fighter Alpha series: it's a handicap. ~_~ AGGGH! Yes, I said it. Actually, I never even really thought of fighters as being weaker until I started reading this forum where people are always complaining about it. But yes, it's true, they are weaker, unless the DM goes out of their way to inconvenience wizards by preventing them from resting whenever they want to, or having their spellbooks get stolen and their familiars ganked, and stuff like that.

Granted that, I understand why they changed it. ~_~

But if I can't polymorph into weird things or summon monsters to set off traps for me, or use "Plant Growth" to try to break my fall when I fall off a 200 foot cliff into the jungle, perhaps I'll have to play other games than D&D for the "Hmm, let me see how I can use this power/spell/whatever in some weird way to solve some weird problem" appeal.

 

[ptolemy18]

Maybe your expectations, I had a hunch this coming as soon as Mearls’s involvement with 4th edition was announced. His Iron Heroes game basically let the NPC casters do whatever the DM wanted and made PC wizards optional and straightjacketed at the same time. I don’t think that was a terrible thing, but it certainly put the writing on the wall.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I *love* what they've done with the non-spellcasting classes to beef them up... I just hate losing the insanely weird high-end spellcasting possibilities, and the whole system (however clunky) in 3e where they basically say, "Here's every conceivable magical effect which is roughly in line with ever power level, from making plants grow to polymorphing to creating a wall of fire, and with Metamagic Feats you can make 'em even more personalized, now go hog wild."

 

[phil500]

The monsters seem to have A LOT of HP. I mean my lvl 23 wizards will run out of spells against a lvl 4 black dragon for crying out loud.

can a level 23 wiz solo the dragon youre talking about?

i wonder what the lowest level a wiz could be to do so.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Ptolemy18,
ugh that's EXACTLY what I was complaining about, actually, lol! maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.
3rd ed wizards were broken, way over-powered, and boring at low level.
4th ed is much more fun and balanced, IMHO.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I *love* what they've done with the non-spellcasting classes to beef them up... I just hate losing the insanely weird high-end spellcasting possibilities, and the whole system (however clunky) in 3e where they basically say, "Here's every conceivable magical effect which is roughly in line with ever power level, from making plants grow to polymorphing to creating a wall of fire, and with Metamagic Feats you can make 'em even more personalized, now go hog wild."

Beef them up? Whatever. Once you use up your encounters and dailies, especially at low levels... you're stuck with using the same at-will over and over. There's no trip, no disarm, no sunder... they've removed 75% of the options I used in 3e with my fighter all the time. The only thing they left was bull rush.

Seriously. The lvl 1 eladrin ranger I'm making can either Grab, Bull Rush, Hit & Run, or Twin Strike once she's used her daily and encounter powers. That's roughly a 40% reduction from what a lvl 1 ranger in 3e could do. (3e: Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Sunder, Trip, Standard Attack & Move, Full Attack).

Except now... every class is that way. Casters got the shaft.