Problems with Greater Magic Weapon

[EOL]

My players are around 12th level (playing since the introduction of 3E) and I get the feeling that if I tossed in a +3 weapon they could care less, they would much rather have a +1 Keen Flaming Burst or something like that, because they have greater magical weapon, and it only seems like it's going to get worse. When they get to 15th level for the cost of 9,000 gp at most (the cost of a level 3 pearl of power) they can have a +5 weapon 15 hours out of the day. So at that point every melee combatant is walking around with one, damage resistance is moot. Am I missing something?

And yes I know it's vunerable to a dispel magic, but how often can I do that before it becomes tired?

It mostly seems to be a market issue and maybe I'm being overly anal, but why would a paladin, adventuring with a wizard, pay 128,000 gp to go from a +1 keen, lawful, flaming burst longsword to a +5 keen, lawful, flaming burst, longsword when for 9,000 he can have one for the whole time he's awake?

 

[Madfox]

And yes I know it's vunerable to a dispel magic, but how often can I do that before it becomes tired?

I would say a lot. At that level it is only normal for intelligent villains to assume that the PCs have boosted themselves with magic. Besides, 4 PCs with a greater magic weapons means either 4 less 3rd lvl wizard spells or 4 less 4th lvl cleric spells to deal with. In my experience, granted I have never run campaigns above 10th lvl yet, this spell is only used to boost the ammunation of missile weapons or to boost the weapon of a fighter or two. What use is a greater magic weapon when facing a lot of low CR monsters or when trying to get through a small area where a lightning bolt would serve much better?

On a side note: I am running RttToEE at the moment. The PCs are at 6th lvl now and somehow glyph of warding with a dispel magic is the most favourite glyph used be temple defenses. This is the case ever since the PCs have three times used silence to great effect.

 

[Rook]

While I understand the problem, remember that the characters have to allocate a fourth level spell slot (or so) for every weapon they enchant. Greater Magic Weapon is an excellent spell, but at 12th level, the characters should be feeling the pull of the other fourth level spells upon them.

Your base analysis is correct, though. If the characters are willing to prepare or have their sorceror cast a large number of Greater Magic Weapon spells, then low bonus, high ability weapons will become valuable. The same thing should be happening with Magic Vestment and armor and shields, as well. My feeling is to leave it alone. The characters are playing intelligently by allocating their resources in such a way, but they are devoting a considerable chunk of 3rd and 4th level spells to the process. If you still feel it's a problem, you could cap the spell at +3, perhaps creating an even higher level spell that goes up to +5.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Spell Resistance wouldnt apply would it to overcome the Greater Magic Weapon bonus ?

They dont even need greater magic weapon in order to get by Damage Reduction... there is a Magic of Faerun +1 bonus that allows you to hit up to +5 damage reduction: Sure Strike

 

[SpikeyFreak]

If they are walking around with +1 weapons that have GMW cast all the time, set them up against some sorcerers who like the dispell. You probably wouldn't have to do more than 2 or 3 encounters where their GMW gets disspelled before they wonder if it's really worth it.

Make sure you throw in some creatures with DR. It would really suck to be using a +1 weapons and to have to fight a cabal of sorcerers who dispell the GMW and summon a couple of demons.

I see the problem though, and I'm going to have to make sure id doesn't happen IMC.

--Slave Spikey

 

[Rook]

Just to add one more thing: I find the major hassle with Greater Magic Weapon is the ability to enchant 50 magical missle weapons. If a character enchants 50 arrows +4 and then enchants a longbow to +4, that's +8 worth of bonuses for every shot! Now *that* hurts. The stacking of bonuses from weapon and ammunition can really do a number.

Oh, and I definitely think that at higher levels, Dispel Magic (and Greater Dispel) should become standard tactics for both sides of combat when the ability is available.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

They dont even need greater magic weapon in order to get by Damage Reduction... there is a Magic of Faerun +1 bonus that allows you to hit up to +5 damage reduction: Sure Strike

Sure Striking is in S&F too.

It's a decent enchantment, but I would much rather have a +2 weapon than a +1 sure striking weapon (at the level where +2 weapons are appropriate anyway).

--Library Spikey

 

[Tzarevitch]

I would say a lot. At that level it is only normal for intelligent villains to assume that the PCs have boosted themselves with magic. Besides, 4 PCs with a greater magic weapons means either 4 less 3rd lvl wizard spells or 4 less 4th lvl cleric spells to deal with. In my experience, granted I have never run campaigns above 10th lvl yet, this spell is only used to boost the ammunation of missile weapons or to boost the weapon of a fighter or two. What use is a greater magic weapon when facing a lot of low CR monsters or when trying to get through a small area where a lightning bolt would serve much better?

On a side note: I am running RttToEE at the moment. The PCs are at 6th lvl now and somehow glyph of warding with a dispel magic is the most favourite glyph used be temple defenses. This is the case ever since the PCs have three times used silence to great effect.

Actually, sensible PCs will just make a wand so they don't waste combat slots. My party carries two of wands of greater magic weapon cast at 12th and 10th level. (+4 and +3).

Personally I agree that the spell is too good. It grants too high a plus and lasts too long, expecially considering that very few creatures need more than a +3 to hit anyway. I would change the spell to +1, +1 per 5 levels ( so the spell makes a +2 weapon at 5th level, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15th and +5 at 20th). I would reduce the duration to 10minutes per level so that you have to cast it more often or get a real weapon. After all, it is only a 3rd level spell.

Tzarevitch

 

[Ywain]

And yes I know it's vunerable to a dispel magic, but how often can I do that before it becomes tired?

Well, I suppose if you do it twice it might be cheesy. But if you do it once, it *will* definitely make them stand up and take notice. And that's what you want to do, really -- make them feel like they've made a horrible mistake about once per level. So the way I figure it, you only have to pull out 7 other tricks to keep them on their toes before you retire the characters at L20. That's not too bad.

Then again, most powerful demons, devils and dragons have the ability to dispel magic and DR, and are very intelligent. Any time one of these creatures knows they are being stalked, they *might* just turn invisible (and many have improved invisibility) cast a few dispels then engage when they have the advantage back. So even though you players might complain, it isn't really cheesy to have intelligent opponents use their abilities intelligently.

It mostly seems to be a market issue and maybe I'm being overly anal, but why would a paladin, adventuring with a wizard, pay 128,000 gp to go from a +1 keen, lawful, flaming burst longsword to a +5 keen, lawful, flaming burst, longsword when for 9,000 he can have one for the whole time he's awake?

Well, that is one advantage of being a paladin you can skimp on the magic weapon because you have a spell that can help you out. If you throw an opponent at them that requires (or even just would be nice to have) a +5 backup weapon they will be SOL, though. (Use the the optional skeleton template to make a high CR skeleton with lots of HP and only takes 1/2 damage from piercing or slashing weapons, or put the PCs in a position where +5 missile weapons are needed). This might make them at least consider the option of holding off on casting Magic Weapon until they know what they are up against, or at the very least make them invest a little more heavily in their backup weapons.

Also, the spell covers the portion of the day when the party is awake, but what happens during the time when they sleep? Send an opponent at them during the off-hours and the spell won't be in effect.

Like I said, you don't have to go to the well too often. Most encounters are supposed to be relatively easy so you just have to pull the rug out from underneath the PCs once per level. Different encounters can pull the rug out from under different PCs, so they don't catch on to your plan.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Sure Strike can hit thru Stone Skin too... so will a +5 Greater Magic Weapn bonus !!

Sure Strike is a good option as a backup/reserve weapon in order to make sure you will be able to hit any damage reduction.