Proposal: PH2 and SORCERER

[JoeNotCharles]

You know what? If you're gonna play an odd combo, you're gonna be 5% behind everyone else on your hit rate. That's the way the game works. There was no remedy for this before PHB2, and the world isn't collapsing. The excessive amount of ability-dependence in 4E is too fundamental to be fixed by one feat.

Any feat that we add that gives somebody a +1 to hit in a lot of situations is going to be good enough that people who have maxed their attack stats will want to take it to push that stat even farther. At the most permissive, we could give everyone a static +1 at level 1, 15, 25, and people with less optimal stats would hit slightly more often - but still less often than everyone else.

 

[renau1g]

Agree Joe, this was my thoughts. This edition changes nothing that hasn't always been a part of the game. In 2e, you couldn't be anything that wasn't part of your "traditional" race/class combo. They loosened it in 3e, then gave humans a bonus feat to make them a decent choice, but there was still MC'ing penalties for most races. Something like 10%?

In 4e, it lowers your to-hit by 5%.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

I'm not disagreeing with that, and honestly I'd rather just ban the expertise feats, but it is an issue that has been raised and needs to be addressed somehow in any solution.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

I don't think it's that much of an issue, actually. I mean, just how odd are we saying these character concepts are? 14 in your main stat? Even lower? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but unless you're trying to cripple your character, I don't think this feat is necessary (and if you are trying to cripple him, then you still wouldn't take this feat). I can see three main situations this would come into play: you're trying to make an unoptimal race/class pair, you're new to the game and didn't know that 16/18 is highly recommended for your main stat, or you want to try some off-the-wall MAD character.

The 25 point buy actually allows you to get a good statline even if your race isn't optimal. For example, here's my human warlock (optimal because of racial bonus to con):

Str: 10
Con: 18
Dex: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Here's how I would make her as an Eladrin (less good, but still has racial bonus to int):

Str: 10
Con: 18
Dex: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 13

with one point left to spend. Is this worse than the human? Yes, but not by a lot. If I wanted an halfling, well, she'd look like this:

Str: 10
Con: 18
Dex: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Again, not that much of a difference.

Someone who accidentally creates a rogue with dex 14 should use the overhaul to fix things. Granted, if both the proposal to allow ability change with the overhaul and the Dr. Scruples proposal fail, then I could be convinced otherwise.

If you have this awesome idea for some crazy MAD character, you could just start with a more focused statline, and just use the overhaul/Dr. Scrupples at level 5 to spread your abilities around.

So, in conclusion, I think the solution is to let people change their ability scores with the overhaul.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Just as a note, we just got a fighter with Str 14 submitted. I added a note ("are you SURE you want to do this?") when I character reviewed it. Perfectly valid thing to do if you want to play a char like that, but I think the character reviewers should point something like that out in case it's a newbie who didn't realize it doesn't work like that any more.

 

[renau1g]

Remind me not to be in that group.

 

[EvolutionKB]

I for one would prefer the flat bonus at 5, 15, 25, but I want to get away from this area of discussion.

What about shaman spirit companions? There is a lot of things the rules are unclear about. If the spirit moves does it provoke OA? Does a spirit exert weight and can set off traps? If a spirit moves over a pit does it fall?

 

[Lord Sessadore]

A quick note on the expertise/bonus subject - I'm fine with the straight bonus, and doing whatever else with the feats. My little brainstorm up there might theoretically solve the problem, but the work input and resulting confusion is probably more than it's worth.

As for Evo's questions ... I'll have to do some reading before I feel qualified to answer that. But that'll have to wait til later, I'm afraid. So ... I'm useless here, haha.

 

[Don Incognito]

The spirit "can be targeted by attacks", so I'd imagine that it would trigger OA's. Setting off traps, I'd go with no. Isn't there some limit on how far your spirit companion can be from you?

 

[RedBeardJim]

Looking over the rules for conjurations in general and the spirit companion in particular:

1. Conjurations are unaffected by terrain and environmental phenomena, and do not need to be supported by a solid surface. So I'd say that it wouldn't set off traps, or fall into pits.
2. According to the official FAQ, the companion can't be targeted by OAs.
3. There doesn't seem to be any limit on how far away from you it can be -- the summoning square has to be within "close burst 20", but you just have to maintain line-of-effect to it after that.