Provoking multiple AoOs...

[Thanee]

Where is this "sub-action" in the rules? Sounds like what the rules call an "attack".

It's certainly very close. The "action" part is listed in the table 8-2 above Disarm and Grapple. That's the type of action, which is applied here IMHO. The Full Attack action with Disarm/Grapple gives the necessary precedent.

(Oh wait, you say the Full Attack action is marked incorrectly.)

That depends on the view. I'm leaning towards the second (see other thread for explanation) now. Then the Full Attack action does not provoke itself, but only the smaller parts it consists of, because they are treated seperately, tho the Full Attack action is just a frame for the actions, which are actually performed then.

If it is only actions that provoke, how can one action (like the Full Attack action) provoke multiple AoO's? Your still doing only one action.

Because the Full Attack action (which seems to be the only one, really, unless you include movement, then there are a few more, of course) consists of multiple "actions" (sub-actions or attack actions, if you want to call them that (it's just a term for this construct), I think that term has been used before to explain how grapple and the likes work).

And if you do think this "sub-action" thing is at work, doesn't that mean casting a ranged touch spell would provoke twice? Once for the "Cast a spell" action, and once for the "attack with a ranged weapon" sub-action?

No, because it is an inherent part of the spellcasting action and no seperate action, like a disarm attempt as part of a Full Attack action, it's seperate in the way, that it is not dependant in any way on the other "sub-actions" you take within one Full Attack action. The ranged touch attack in a spellcasting action, however, is inherently linked to the spellcasting itself. It's one process, not two seperate ones.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

BTW, I'd still like to hear how you think some of the questions I asked in the other thread fit the picture, like...

Why table 8-2 is written the way it is, sorted by action types and listing only actions and whether they provoke or not.

Why the SRD makes no mentioning of the part you say defines how AoO work, yet includes the rules for AoO (which could hardly work without these critical defining elements).

Or which feats you meant, when you said, that they generally state in the feat description, if they provoke in the same way Manyshot should do so (that is, feats which introduce a new action, one that is not covered on table 8-2), if it was not the ranged attack itself, which provoked.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mordane76]

Emphasis mine -

MANYSHOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6
Benefit: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows use the same attack roll (with a –4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).
For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack, to a maximum of four arrows at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each arrow after the second adds a cumulative –2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of –6 for three arrows and –8 for four).
Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each arrow fired.
Special: Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage.
A fighter may select Manyshot as one of his fighter bonus feats.
A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the archery combat style is treated as having Manyshot even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.

With the Manyshot question, and taking into account the conversation here... and since there is no indication in the feat itself stating that it works in a fashion different than standard AoO (it doesn't specifically state that it does or doesn't provoke an AoO), it would provoke only one AoO per usage because there is only one attack in question. There maybe multiple arrows, but only one attack. Also, since it's a standard action, and specifically stated as such, you couldn't use it as part of a full-attack in any circumstance.