D&D (2024) Pulse check on 1D&D excitement level

[Shardstone]

I don't know, it really feels to me like people are being a bit too hard on aspects of 1D&D.

Some things like the grapple changes, the attack changes, etc, smooth out the game which better enables the creation of dynamic auxiliary mechanics. If you guys want more subsystems in the future, then the base game needs to be tweaked so that those subsystems can be implemented. As D&D is right now, its very hard to bolt new ideas onto the system new to the math and construction of the various systems at play. The streamlining of things enables future complexity for less buy-in and easier balancing.

I think a lot of people are hyper-focusing on the lack of sweeping changes and not looking at the implications of these changes. Making class chasis a little bit simpler allows you to get more wild in the future with subclasses, feats, and other ideas like racial or generic subclasses or subclass replacements. Likewise, by cutting down on the features each level, the "mental space" afforded to additional features bolted on in the future is increased, which means you can better remix these classes to be what you want them to be.

In other words, all the 1D&D changes so far 100% make it easier to design for the game. That's the big point here -- make the game a little simpler for new people but a lot simpler for DMs and designers to trick out and better make your "Dungeons and Dragons."

TBH I feel like no one is going to really believe what I'm saying until 3 years from now when the limits of the streamlined system are better revealed, but I firmly think 1D&D is a huge progression in every way from 5E as a game.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I would actually love to meet these players that want the game to keep getting simpler and simpler. I don't know any, personally.

/raiseshand

Back in the 80's and 90's I was into options, and studying rulebooks, and system mastery. (Rolemaster!)

I've realized I don't need complex rules and tons of options to have a blast and tell a great story, and sometimes (oftentimes) complexity feels like it gets in the way. And certainly it makes it harder to bring new people into the hobby.

Now, what I do appreciate is "simple rules with complex implications". That is, rules that are easily understood, but lead to complex (as in, hard to optimize) decision-making. An example would be contrast D&D armor rules, in which there are a bunch of different choices that might confuse a beginner, but really your best choice is in almost all cases just the highest AC you can acquire (based on your proficiencies, and what you can afford). That's "complex rules with shallow implications." Contrast that with a system in which there are just a few (maybe 3-5) armor types, and anybody can use any kind, and you even get to pick what you want when you create your character, but there are clear trade-offs between protection and encumbrance. Which also...if implemented well...means there are no wrong choices. I vastly prefer that sort of design.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Ok, thank you for explaining. I understand what you are saying and can now confidently say I disagree with you!

Agreed. What a bizarre theory.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I would actually love to meet these players that want the game to keep getting simpler and simpler. I don't know any, personally.

Hi. I came to fifth edition from Pathfinder 2.

I had a choice to make back in 2016, either continue with Pathfinder 2, which seemed to be doubling down on complexity (particularly when it comes to character customization) or fifth edition which seemed to be the fourth edition I was expecting but didn't get back in 2008.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't think the point of OneD&D is to ratchet up the excitement level for a new edition like in the old days, because this isn't being designed as a new edition like the old days.

From a business stand point, the old model kind of sucked because it trapped the game in extreme boom or bust cycles. The old editions model was done in response to problems. In the mid-80s TSR almost went bankrupt and 2e was needed to drive new book sales. 3e was needed to help the game recover after TSR finally did collapse. 4e was in response to WotC thinking they could greatly expand D&D's base by appealing to MMORPG players, at the height of World of Warcraft, which was perceived as an near-existential threat. 5e was in response to that turning out to be a bad idea. In other words, the old editions model was inherently reactive.

From WotC's perspective, they now have the most popular version of the game ever, by far, and so they are going to stick with it and keep it evergreen by tweaking as needed. This time, they are not reacting to an existential problem, but being proactive, from a place of strength. So the idea isn't to push out a new edition where everyone either replaces all their books or quits, it's to make updates that cause minimal disruption to a very healthy player base while continuing to attract new players. It's to shift from boom/bust to managed growth. So there isn't intended to be a huge "boom" of excitement for OneD&D because, as they keep explicitly stating, they see this as 5e, continued, and with the word "edition" forever removed.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I would actually love to meet these players that want the game to keep getting simpler and simpler. I don't know any, personally.

Well lots of people bought Bugbears and Borderlands and the Shadowdark KS is over 500k and both are a simplified 5e.

Shadowdark is interesting because it’s from a first time publisher and looks to becoming more successful than LevelUp! So clearly there’s an audience for a simplified 5e too.

 

[Minigiant]

Ok, thank you for explaining. I understand what you are saying and can now confidently say I disagree with you!

I don't expect many to agree with me due to the nature of the community.

But there is a reason why there are few complaint threads here, a ton of complaint threads on Reddit, and most videos and blogposts skew negative on the OND&D druid, paladin, bard, and aardling. And a lot of the excitement was even on meh before the OGL drama.

Only @Clint_L and I have given hypotheses on why.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I don't expect many to agree with me due to the nature of the community.

But there is a reason why there are few complaint threads here, a ton of complaint threads on Reddit, and most videos and blogposts skew negative on the OND&D druid, paladin, bard, and aardling. And a lot of the excitement was even on meh before the OGL drama.

Only @Clint_L and I have given hypotheses on why.

I don’t disagree with the fact that some people are dissatisfied with the direction of 1DND. What I disagree with is your opinion as to why: catering to grognards

 

[Minigiant]

I don’t disagree with the fact that some people are dissatisfied with the direction of 1DND. What I disagree with is your opinion as to why: catering to grognards

Not catering to grognards.
Giving grognards too large a say in the creation of 5e by making poll thresholds too high.

Many of the stuff 5e current fans say they wish for were shot down in the D&D playtest.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Not catering to grognards.
Giving grognards too large a say in the creation of 5e by making poll thresholds too high.

Many of the stuff 5e current fans say they wish for were shot down in the D&D playtest.

Yes, this is what I disagree with. I don’t think 5e was or is currently designed that way.

Edit: I am not saying you’re wrong. It is your opinion, I just have a differing opinion.