D&D (2024) Pulse check on 1D&D excitement level

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Not quite
The issue is not just adding more skills but why a skill is added.

ATM the roster of skill is heavy on "feel" and not enough "design". That's fine at the start when you don't realize/care the consquences of your design choices. But as time goes, they beat on you and you get here.

I may be dense, but I have read a couple post of yours on this subject and I still don’t understand what you’re suggesting, other than give classes more skills to choose from.

I am also not sure what you are trying to accomplish

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It doesn't, but WotC apparently sees no value in making options for players at all interested in a little more complexity. Ease of use is all that seems to matter to them, so from their perspective, design work in any other direction is a waste of effort.

Clearly that is not true as there are complex classes in 5e and there have been from the beginning. The issue only seems to apply to martials (though there are complex martials too). Actually I find my feats only battlemaster plenty complex, but everyone is different!

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

(I hate their take on stealth and grappling, for example).

Just an FYI, the current grapple rule is the 2014 rule. They scrapped the revised rule.

 

[Olrox17]

Just an FYI, the current grapple rule is the 2014 rule. They scrapped the revised rule.

Oh, thank you. Didn’t have time to read the entire packet yet. That’s a good call, IMO.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Because the skills aren't primarily assigned to abilities from a balance perspective, they're assigned based on what ability the designers anticipated them being paired with most often. Free-form matching of skill with the most suitable ability for the occasion is presented as an optional rule, but it is clearly how the game was designed to be played, they just backed off from enforcing it. If they arbitrarily made Deception Intelligence based, or whatever, people would still just call for Charisma-based Deception checks.

Persuasion and Deception are separate skills because either one is a top tier skill on its own. If they were combined into some sort of mega-persuasion skill (which should also logically subsume intimidation at that point) then everybody takes it who isn't trying to give themself a special challenge or emphasize a socially inept character.

I do wish in 5.5 they would lead with the rule to use whatever attribute seems most applicable, and bury the default assignments as additional guidance, instead of vice versa.

 

[Minigiant]

I may be dense, but I have read a couple post of yours on this subject and I still don’t understand what you’re suggesting, other than give classes more skills to choose from.

I am also not sure what you are trying to accomplish

Basically

D&D has a lot of "What do I want?" asked and not a lot of ""How does the thing I want affect the rest of the game?" and "What changes have to be made in order for what I want to work?" asked.

Like in wildshape. Turning into every animal is cool. But now you forced players to look up the monster rules for every animal and now have to design monsters for player side use

Or with skills. You might only see the need for just the single Strength skill in Athletics and no Constitution skills. But you have 4 classes that used Strength as a primary score. And every class has Constitution as a secondary or tertiary skill. So might need to create 1-2 new Strength skills (Weightlifting, Riding, Bend Bars, Break Doors) and a Constitution skills (Endurance, Drinking, Concentration). Some of these ideas aren't popular but you can't have some things you want without designing for it

 

[mellored]

100% They could keep their simpler classes AND add some more dynamic classes and everyone wins and they can expand their audience.

You can add battle master to a champion
You can not add champion to a battle master

So the core class needs to be simple. Especially for PHB classes where people start.

 

[Ringtail]

I don't hate it. Some things seem better, some things seem worse.In general, its kind of hard to be excited for "more of the same." I'm somewhere between 'Low' and 'Meh.' Voted low because the Druid playtest is a mess.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can add battle master to a champion
You can not add champion to a battle master

So the core class needs to be simple. Especially for PHB classes where people start.

But WotC doesn't really believe in adding new classes (adding in the artificer was like pulling teeth). So what you get in the PHB is what you get.

 

[mellored]

But WotC doesn't really believe in adding new classes (adding in the artificer was like pulling teeth). So what you get in the PHB is what you get.

There's still sub-classes.

But overall, I expect D&D will be the entry way to tabletop games. Meaning it needs to error on simple.

I recommend Pathfinder 2 for anyone looking for a bit more mechanical variety.