Question about the Witch King in LOTR

[shilsen]

* Walks into thread with copious reams of Tolkienish erudition

Begins, "Well, you see, their actual mission...

* Looks at Celtavian's post

Clears throat. "Then let me just add that they are not at...

* Sees Umbran's post

Tries desperately one more time. "Since there were only five...

* Spies Buttercup's comment

"Aw, phooey!"

*Stalks off to find someplace where nobody else really knows about the books

 

[Daniel Knight]

Am I the only one who thought that the Witch King wasn’t being literal when he said the line? Like… you know when you’re in the heat of battle against an army – you’re going to say some things that aren’t necessarily true but sound good at the time to put the willies up the enemy, like “Bwahaha… I’m gonna suck out your eyeballs through your nose and make balloon animals out of your intestines when I’m through with you!!”

I guess what I’m saying is, when he said “No man can hurt me” (or something like that), “man” didn’t latterly mean, “man”. He meant it as in “man-kind”, (which includes females).

She then goes, “Well bugger that, you ugly looking sod, I’m gonna stab you in the hat and show you that I’m a lot better with this sword then you think I am. And then when you die, I’m gonna say “I am no man”, ‘cause that would be a really clever pun on what you just said, and show that I truly am kick-arse in combat!”

Or am I the only one who thought that?

 

[Umbran]

Or am I the only one who thought that?

Perhaps you are

Mythically speaking, the "cannot be killed by a male human" is probably more correct. It's a fairly old saw in mythology - the villain that acts as invulnerable because he's not vulnerable to the basic weapons available. Can't be slain by any man of woman born, only to be slain by someone ripped untimely from mother's womb. Or cannot be slain by any weapon forged by man, only to be beaten to death with a tree branch. Mythology is full of things that are intended literally, but are taken more generally by the characters.

Remember that, next time you're making up prophecies and omen and oracles. Usually, one goes about it by saying somethng vague. Sometimes, it's better to say something very, very specific, but word it so that it'll be read in a more general fashion.

 

[shilsen]

Am I the only one who thought that the Witch King wasn’t being literal when he said the line? Like… you know when you’re in the heat of battle against an army – you’re going to say some things that aren’t necessarily true but sound good at the time to put the willies up the enemy, like “Bwahaha… I’m gonna suck out your eyeballs through your nose and make balloon animals out of your intestines when I’m through with you!!”

I guess what I’m saying is, when he said “No man can hurt me” (or something like that), “man” didn’t latterly mean, “man”. He meant it as in “man-kind”, (which includes females).

She then goes, “Well bugger that, you ugly looking sod, I’m gonna stab you in the hat and show you that I’m a lot better with this sword then you think I am. And then when you die, I’m gonna say “I am no man”, ‘cause that would be a really clever pun on what you just said, and show that I truly am kick-arse in combat!”

Or am I the only one who thought that?

I think you can make a credible argument that in the movie he wasn't being literal. There's no other mention of that information (I don't think Gandalf mentions it when he's describing him, but I might have missed it) in the movie.

In the book, however, there is a specific mention of it, and it's even covered in the appendices when the host of Angmar is defeated by the forces of Gondor and Rivendell. Earnur is about to follow the fleeing Witch-King and Glorfindel stops him, saying that he cannot be slain by mortal man. So it's definitely not just a cool line from him in the book.

(Recalled all of the above without having looked at the books in a couple of years. My geek-fu is strong )

 

[Taren Seeker]

Gandalf mentioned it in the movie as well.

 

[Umbran]

(I don't think Gandalf mentions it when he's describing him, but I might have missed it)

I think you missed it. I believe words to the same effect come from Gandalf when he's describing the leader of Sauron's forces. But I've only seen the movie once, so I might just be wrong.

 

[Pants]

There's something really similar to the 'No man can hinder me' in MacBeth. I can't remember the exact line, but the circumstances and the line are very similar. Although, Shakespeare did borrow from other sources so... what's the point of my post? I like saying the name 'MacBeth.'

MacBeth! MacBeth!

 

[WayneLigon]

...I like saying the name 'MacBeth.' MacBeth! MacBeth!

Aahhhhh! Hot potato, off his drawers, pluck to make amends. Ohhh!

 

[Morrus]

Aahhhhh! Hot potato, off his drawers, pluck to make amends. Ohhh!

I heard it as "Puck will make amends".

 

[Hypersmurf]

I heard it as "Puck will make amends".

There's debate.

Someone's done an analysis here.

-Hyp.