Question: Multi-classing druid

[Lord Pendragon]

Say a druid multi-classes as some sort of arcane spellcaster such as wizard or sorcerer, thereby getting a familiar. But he also has an animal companion from being a druid -- could the animal companion become my familiar? Or would I summon a new one?

A simple answer via the rules as I understand them:

Should the druid possess an animal companion, whose race is one of those listed as possible familiars in the Sorcerer section of the PHB (pg 51), then yes, the companion could become a familiar. A sorcerer's familiar is always a normal animal which becomes a magical beast through a magical ritual, (T&B pg 10). How you get the animal before you perform the ritual doesn't matter. So starting with an animal companion and transforming it into a familiar is perfectly all right.

However, if you have an animal companion which is not on the familiar list, then no, you can't make it into a familiar. The reason for this is simple: familiars weren't meant to be combat animals. They gain bonuses which allow them to be survivable (bonuses to AC, improved evasion, etc.) but do not allow them to be combat animals. A druid's animal companion, on the other hand, is meant to be a combat machine already. Giving it a familiar's bonuses would make it far more potent than either an animal companion or a familiar were ever meant to be.

Consider a Druid10/Sorcerer1. As a druid, he can have a 10HD animal as his companion. He choses a tiger. Then he decides to make it his familiar, giving it a bonus to AC and improved evasion. This is quite powerful, and was never meant to be.

A viable option, though, would be for the druid/sorcerer to take the feat Improved Familiar, also from Tome and Blood. This allows for an expanded list of familiars which are more powerful than standard familiars. If a druid/sorcerer were to take the Improved Familiar feat to make his animal companion (which is not on the normal familiar list,) into his familiar, I'd allow it, so long as the creature wasn't more powerful than the creatures listed on the Improved Familiar list. (A Dire Tiger familiar...uh...maybe not. )

 

[Darkness]

DON'T MULTICLASS A DRUID. I tried the same thing and he cannot survive through an entire session. He is constantly getting ressurected.

What level is he now, and what level are his comrades?

 

[green slime]

The main problem about multiclassing in 3E, is the loss of up front power for multiclassed spellcasters.

Loosing a point or two off BAB to gain some sneak attack ability and more skill points is fairly attractive to a warrior type.

But when you combine spellcasting classes, you loose big league in power. Taking the 4th Druid/ 4th Sorcerer for comparision, you have given up the ability to cast at least two flamestrikes per day (if the character was a pure Druid) for the ability to cast 1 (one) 2nd level spell 3 (three) times per day. OR as an 8th sorcerer cast a 4th level spell 3 (three) times per day. It just doesn't add up.

Now consider that, given equivalent scores in Wisdom and Charisma, the flame strike will be more difficult to save against (+2 DC) than the 2nd level arcane spell, the character has given up an average of 8 hit points, and the ability to have 8 HD of animal companions...

They might look good on paper, isolated from other characters, but when placed next to what they could have been, they always seem to come up short, IMO.

 

[fba827]

well, couldn't you also argue that that multiclassing a fighter sucks? or multiclassing a wizard sucks? why is it the multiclassed druid that sucks?

I'll leave this short since it isn't really the focus of this topic's thread (or at least shouldn't be since something different was asked originally). But druid's have on disadvantage when multi-classing that other classes do not have: their weapon and armor restrictions.

(This is all aside from the whole multi-classing a spellcasting class statement)

If you are wizard or cleric and multi-class to fighter (or Ranger, or whatever), you can now use the new weapon and armor proficiencies granted by your new class without penalty. However, if you try and do the same thing with a druid character, you are STILL relegated to the same weapon and armor restrictions (unless you don't mind the penalty). Now, this isn't a "druids suck" brandwagon - in fact, I really do like the flavor of druids (taste good with ketchup) and have no problem with the weapon restrictions. Just pointing out a fact to answer a question. (Of course, Paladins and Monks face a multi-class penalty per core rules... they can't without even more serious penalties! )

 

[fba827]

Back to the original question ...

Since I took the trouble to respond to another issue on here (see my post above), I thought I'd also give my two cents on the original question.

This question's semi-brought up by a thread on the general forum, also by the fact that my current character (a lizardman druid) may multi-class in this manner...

Say a druid multi-classes as some sort of arcane spellcaster such as wizard or sorcerer, thereby getting a familiar. But he also has an animal companion from being a druid -- could the animal companion become my familiar? Or would I summon a new one?

It could work either way.

Either a) one of your companions can become your famliar (since familiars all start off as normal animals and are transformed into magical beings) - or b) you could summon a new one entirely.

Note if the companion you plan on converting is not one of the default animal choices for familiars in the PHB, then you'll want to double check with your DM to make sure it's okay (though, if its of the same relative power level it probably shouldn't be an issue).

 

[dvvega]

fba: Your comment about weapons is actually quite a good one. IMC I have house ruled that clerics must remain faithful to their religion and it's weaponry even when multiclassing. To balance that I have allowed Paladins to freely multiclass as clerics within certain religions etc.

 

[Pielorinho]

I personally think that druids multiclass well into monks, rogues, rangers, barbarians, and fighters, in that order. Generally, I think a druid should MC with an eye toward improving their wildshaped forms. As a monk, they gain that awesome increase to AC, improved evasion, and increased movement. As a rogue, each attack does sneaky damage, and improved evasion again. As a ranger, they can track much more easily. As a barbarian, raging and increased movement are great. And as a fighter, they can take all sorts of combat feats.

Daniel

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I personally think that druids multiclass well into monks, rogues, rangers, barbarians, and fighters, in that order. Generally, I think a druid should MC with an eye toward improving their wildshaped forms. As a monk, they gain that awesome increase to AC, improved evasion, and increased movement. As a rogue, each attack does sneaky damage, and improved evasion again. As a ranger, they can track much more easily. As a barbarian, raging and increased movement are great. And as a fighter, they can take all sorts of combat feats.

Daniel

Interesting.

I can see this might work, but I would definitely not multiclass the Druid until 7th. At that point you get acces to Flame Strike and a good selection of spells. I think multiclassing earlier hurts you.

I suppose if you want to do the fighting yourself instead of letting your companions and summoned creatures do so for you, you could multi much earlier. 5 or 6 levels of Druid give you some wildshaping and spells. Flame Blade holds some promise for a finesse fighter, and also could be very useful for a Rogue who want to land sneak attacks easily.

Not having the maximum HD of companions, the biggest possible Summon, and delaying access to Animal Growth and Awaken Animal really hurts the fighting power of your wandering zoo.

Multiclassing with two primary spellcaster classes is a very bad idea IMO. (Exception: picking up a single level of Cleric is extremely helpful to the survivability of low levels characters, especially wizards.)

 

[Pielorinho]

Actually, I think there are two good places to MC the druid:

At sixth level. Done here, you can wildshape once a day and get some funky bonuses to go with it. A six level character wildshaped into a black bear with flurry of blows and a +3 or +4 bonus to AC is a formidable fighter.
At ninth level. Here, you can wildshape 3 times a day into a brown bear. Again, add in flurry of blows and the AC bonus, and you become pretty buff.

Personally, I play a non-multiclassing druid. I like my spells too much, and I find that I'm at my most effective when I'm commanding fun beasties. Giant vermin is an obscene spell when used on wasps and scorpions, for example, and the flexibility of the various summoning spells sure doesn't suck.

Because druids get so many good "cookies" (cool nifty powers), and because the wildshape-based powers are so flexible, I think they're one of the most fun classes to play single-classed. If I were playing a fighter-type, I'd almost certainly MC into another fighter class, just for variety. But druids don't need to MC to get more dweep and cheese.


Daniel