Question on Flame Blade...

[James McMurray]

Cool. You use what works for your game, I'll use what works for mine, and when an actual rule surfaces one of us will change or we won't. Its all good.

 

[Caliban]

Cool. You use what works for your game, I'll use what works for mine, and when an actual rule surfaces one of us will change or we won't. Its all good.

Well, the actual rules do give a crit range for a spell.

 

[RigaMortus]

You wield it as if it was a scimitar. There is a reason why they say "as a scimitar" and not, "as a longsword" or "as a great axe". I think the intent is, you wield the Flame Blade as a scimitar in ALL aspects, unless noted otherwise. Where is it noted otherwise? The damage, and the fact that it is a touch attack. All other aspects of the Flame Blade are to wield it as if it were a scimitar.

Which makes me wonder... Would it then have a weight to it?

This is also what made me wonder if you could "give" it to someone else. If you treat it as if it were a scimitar, and you can normally give a scimitar to someone else, and it doesn't explicity state you can't give the Flame Blade to someone else, why not? Just because it's created in your hands shouldn't matter. And the actual wording is that it "springs forth" from your hands. That doesn't mean it's somehow molded (grafted) to your hand, and that it can not be moved/removed from your hand. I mean, a Tenser's Floating Disk is created along side me, does that means I can't sit and ride on it? Geesh... (ahhh, yeah, that was a joke)...

Edit: Fixed some of my wording there...

 

[James McMurray]

They also have a crit range for ascimitar.

 

[Caliban]

They also have a crit range for ascimitar.

Yup, they sure do. And if you were actually weilding a scimitar, that's what you would use.

My point is that you are not weilding a scimitar. You are wielding a spell, using the same techniques you would use with a scimitar. Any scimitar specific feats or abilities you have would work with the flame blade.

The spell doesn't say that the flame blade is treated like a scimitar. It says that you wield it as if it were a scimitar. There is a difference.

Given that the spell doesn't state a crit range, I think you would have to use the crit range for a spell, by the rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This is also what made me wonder if you could "give" it to someone else. If you treat it as if it were a scimitar, and you can normally give a scimitar to someone else, and it doesn't explicity state you can't give the Flame Blade to someone else, why not? Just because it's created in your hands shouldn't matter. And the actual wording is that it "springs forth" from your hands. That doesn't mean it's somehow molded (grafted) to your hand, and that it can not be moved/removed from your hand.

RANGE
A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted.

The spell's effect is the swordlike beam. The range is 0. The maximum distance from you that the swordlike beam can occur is 0. If you give it to someone else, the effect exceeds the range. No more swordlike beam.

They would stack with one another but not with themselves.

I look at it more like 3.0 Shield. You couldn't cast it twice in order to get +7 AC against the entire battlefield, because it wouldn't stack with itself, even if oriented differently.

Actually, the comparison with 3E Shield is exactly why I would allow two Flame Blades.

From the 3E Main FAQ:

Can you cast two shield spells and cover yourself against
attacks from anywhere on the battlefield?
No. The spell’s target is you (the caster), so when you cast it
you get a disc of force you can use for defense. If you cast the
spell a second time, you still have a (single) disc of force you
can use for defense. If the spell’s target was the disc (or if the
spell was an area of effect spell) you could have more than one,
just like you can summon more than one monster or create
more than one wall of force. The target is you, however, so you
can have only one shield spell running at a time.

So according to this, if 3E Shield were "Effect: One mobile disk of force", you could have two, but since it's "Target: You", you can't. (When you cast the spell, You become "a person affected by Shield", rather than "creating a disk".)

Since Flame Blade is an Effect spell, not a Target: You, you can create more than one.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The spell doesn't say that the flame blade is treated like a scimitar. It says that you wield it as if it were a scimitar. There is a difference.

Given that the spell doesn't state a crit range, I think you would have to use the crit range for a spell, by the rules.

After all, the damage is unrelated to scimitar damage.

Would Improved Critical (Scimitar) make the threat range 19-20 (doubling the spell crit), 15-20 (doubling the weapon crit), or 17-20 (giving the same increase to the spell crit - +3 - that the feat would normally give to the weapon crit)?

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

In my game it would give 15-20. I just figure that something that is shaped like a scimitar and wielded like a scimitar is likely to crit like a scimitar.

Two Flame Blades: Like I said, my reasoning is all just window dressing to the true reason: balance. I don't like the idea of two flame blades being wielded simultaneously.

 

[Artoomis]

In my game it would give 15-20. I just figure that something that is shaped like a scimitar and wielded like a scimitar is likely to crit like a scimitar.

Two Flame Blades: Like I said, my reasoning is all just window dressing to the true reason: balance. I don't like the idea of two flame blades being wielded simultaneously.

I would presume, then, that you would have to be proficient with a scimitar or take the normal penalty.

Their seems to be little reason for the spell to mention that it is wielded like a scimitar unless you need proficiency. Since a wizard is not proficient in scimitar, that means using a feat, in which case the scimitar critical seems fine.

I'd say it should be run one of two ways:

(1): Scimitar proficiency required and criticals like a scimitar.
(2): Scimitar proficiency not required, but no scimitar critical, either.

 

[Caliban]

In my game it would give 15-20. I just figure that something that is shaped like a scimitar and wielded like a scimitar is likely to crit like a scimitar.

Where does it say it's shaped like a scimitar? I didn't think a scimitar was shaped like a 3-foot long beam.