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Quick Draw and Threat Area...

Nifelhein

First Post
Okay, quick draw lets you draw a weapon as a free action, now consider that the character has a situation where an opponent causes an AoO in a square adjacent.

Would the character be allowed to take the longsword out of the scabbard and roll the attack?

The point is that while it seems perfectly reasonable it will allow a character with the quick draw feat to always threat an area around him. This fits the concept of the style of the "dead guard" or iajutsu, where the samurai learned to attack by taking the sword directly from its scabbard and then placed it again, but it also resumes the whole style in a single feat...

Okay, two weapon fighting does the same with the Niten technique, but it has penalties to its use.

Sharing thoughts only, as this has never been raised in my game table.
 

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Diirk

First Post
No.

You don't threaten with no weapon out (unless you have natural attacks or improved unarmed strike) so no AoO. If you somehow do threaten and do get an AoO, you still can't draw it, because it isn't your turn so you can't use free actions.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Exactly as Diirk says. An AoO is provoked only within a threaten area, before you draw the weapon you don't threaten any area.
You would threaten if you had another weapon or Improved Unarmed Strike, but in any case, an AoO is a single melee attack, not a single melee attack + free actions, therefore no free actions.
 


Darklone

Registered User
Someone posted houserules some months ago with an improved quickdraw feat that allowed what you described... very stylish, he added some other stuff.
 


Thanee

First Post
I think that's the "not considered a melee attack" part. You do not threaten an area, unless you could make a melee attack into that area. In 3.0 it was pretty unclear, whether an untrained unarmed attack was considered melee or not, I suppose (hope ;)) they have cleared that up in 3.5.

Bye
Thanee
 

irdeggman

First Post
Inconsequenti-AL said:
I thought you still threatened a square with unskilled/unarmed combat? Even though you would draw an AOO from attacking? Did I miss something?


Nope, in 3.5 PHB "If you are unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make AoO." It then goes on to describe 'armed' unarmed attacks, e.g., natural weapons or the IUA feat (or monk's ability))
 

Inconsequenti-AL

Breaks Games
Wow. That had gone completely over my head. Thanks for putting me right.

Bah! Havn't had a 3.0 > 3.5 change 'trip up' for a few weeks... was hoping I'd done with them (fat chance!).
 

JimAde

First Post
Thanee said:
You can only perform actions (even free actions) on your turn (unless you readied).

Bye
Thanee
I think this nicely describes Iaijutsu. If someone had a readied action (draw and attack if an AoO is provoked) I would let it fly. As a trained fighter you're supposed to be "always ready" which in game terms might mean having a readied action. People look at you funny if you walk around like that all the time, though :)
 





Will

First Post
Hmmmm. Here's a thought...

Readied action: Draw my sword if someone moves past me (or casts spell, or whatever AoO-type action seems likely to occur).

You draw the sword... before they complete their action (since it's readied).

You then threaten space and they incur an AoO.
 

Kemrain

First Post
Darklone said:
I guess I'd allow it with Combat Reflexes AND Quickdraw.

JimAde said:
You could even require Improved Initiative as well. Three feats looks like a real commitment to a style.

Do I smell a PrC coming on? Heh, I could see this tying into other feats, like Expert Tactician, and anything that lets you render your opponent flatfooted for your next attack.

Um, with quickdraw, could you ready an action to draw your sword and attack if someone provokes an AoO, attack, and then take your AoO normally? It could be unbalanced, seeing as you're giving up your iterative attacks for 2 attacks at your highest bonus... I dunno.

Tying this to Combat Reflexes, what do you think of 'charging' an AoO from your max, for drawing a weapon to make an AoO? Drawing a weapon is usually a move action, a free action with Quickdraw, and attacking a standard action. What if you said "If you can draw a weapon as a free action, for the cost of an Attack of Opportunity for the round you can threaten an area as if you had a weapon drawn, and make other Attacks of Opportunity with said weapon"?

- Kemrain the Intrigued.
 

JimAde

First Post
Kemrain said:
Um, with quickdraw, could you ready an action to draw your sword and attack if someone provokes an AoO, attack, and then take your AoO normally? It could be unbalanced, seeing as you're giving up your iterative attacks for 2 attacks at your highest bonus... I dunno.
I would say no. An AoO is, by definition, a reaction, so you shouldn't be able to react and then react again.

Kemrain said:
Tying this to Combat Reflexes, what do you think of 'charging' an AoO from your max, for drawing a weapon to make an AoO? Drawing a weapon is usually a move action, a free action with Quickdraw, and attacking a standard action. What if you said "If you can draw a weapon as a free action, for the cost of an Attack of Opportunity for the round you can threaten an area as if you had a weapon drawn, and make other Attacks of Opportunity with said weapon"?

- Kemrain the Intrigued.
I assumed Darklone intended to charge for an AoO when he suggested requiring Combat Reflexes. Makes sense to me. As far as threatening, I have a problem with it. If you threaten, you grant and receive flanking bonuses. But if your weapon isn't drawn, the enemy won't perceive you as threatening (I think that's the whole idea of this tactic). So I'd say you don't threaten, but can still execute an AoO if someone provokes in the area you would threaten with the weapon in question.
 

Will

First Post
Kemrain, check my last message.

You can only ready a single action (move, standard, or free). But I think my idea should get around that...
 

Len

Prodigal Member
Will said:
You can only ready a single action (move, standard, or free). But I think my idea should get around that...
But the AoO also happens "before they complete their action" - if they try to move out of a threatened square, they suffer an AoO first and then they move. So which one happens first, the AoO or your drawing a weapon? I'd say they're simultaneous so that the opportunity passes while you're drawing your weapon.

It might work if you ready to draw if someone moves into a threatened square. Then if they continue on out of the square you're ready to make an AoO. That's a more specific situation though.
 

Will

First Post
Ah, but a ready action occurs 'just before the action that triggered it.'

I think 'just before' trumps 'before they complete.'
 

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