Quick (dumb) question about feat qualifications

[The_Ditto]

Wait a minute. So this means that feats ignore the order of operations? How does that work, exactly? Do you check to see if the feat meets its prerequisites after you've finished leveling up?

I'm wondering if, under some circumstances, you could take a feat that uses itself to satisfy its prerequisites. Or two feats, A and B, where A is the prerequisite for B and B is the prerequisite for A.

This is why I just do Feats last ... and be done with it ...
(And yes, if you need the feat as a pre-req for something else .. you gotta wait until next level ... )

 

[Nail]

I'm wondering if, under some circumstances, you could take a feat that uses itself to satisfy its prerequisites.

Neat.

Given the wording ("gain a feat at the same level at which he or she
gains the prerequisite"), it looks like you don't gain the feat if you don't meet the prerequisites "at the same level". Meaning that since you don't have the feat until after you've chosen it, you don't have all of the prerequisites for that feat "at the same level".

 

[Cheiromancer]

...since you don't have the feat until after you've chosen it, you don't have all of the prerequisites for that feat "at the same level".

Why wouldn't you have the feat? Assuming you had a feat slot: if you take it you'll have met the prerequisites at that level. The fact that "a character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite" means that, strictly speaking, the statement "you don't have the feat until after you've chosen it" does not apply. You do in fact have the feat if you have a feat slot and can meet the prerequisites at that same level.

(For the sake of brevity I'm going to drop "have a feat slot" as subsumed in "meet the prerequisites", 'K?)

 

[Nail]

If you have not chosen a feat, do you have a feat?

When you chose a feat, how do you know you can have the feat?

When looking at the prerequisites of a feat, do you include the feat you are chosing as a possible prerequisite to the feat you are chosing?

 

[isoChron]

Why not take Dodge as human bonus feat and Mobility as 1st level feat ? The moment you choose Mobility you already have Dodge.

 

[Engilbrand]

We never follow the order of operations. Why make it so difficult? If you need TWF to qualify for a PrC at 6th level, you take it and then the level. If you need something specific from a class before you get the feat, then take the level then the feat. It simplifies everything. If you qualify at any point in the level, take the feat.
No, you can't take Energy Substitution without having another metamagic feat. ES can't fulfill its own prerequisites. You can't take it, so it can't be used in that way. Saying that taking it to meet the prerequisite is like saying that you are reading a book about reading books without having that book. It doesn't work. It's a no-go and I'm amazed that someone could even say that it works.
Also, lack of a feature does not mean that one has the feature. Battle Caster requires the ability to cast in armor. "None" does not count as armor. It is the absence of armor and precludes a Wizard or Sorceror from taking it without another class.

 

[Nail]

We never follow the order of operations. Why make it so difficult?

Because - as you have aptly pointed out - then you can get into a PrC earlier than you should!

 

[MarkB]

Because - as you have aptly pointed out - then you can get into a PrC earlier than you should!

He boiled down the solution to that easily enough: Feats can be taken at the level at which you qualify for them. PrCs must be taken at the level after you qualify for them.

That's how I've always run it, and so far haven't seen any anomalies from not using an "order of operations" for every single stage of leveling up.

 

[Nail]

Sounds good to me, FWIW.