Races for Campaign, Should I drop any?

[Aries_Omega]

I have been tinkering with my campaign setting. I realize the core rules has dwarf, elf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, half-orc and human for a reason. They fill a niche well and some are just tradition. I may not understand all of it but it's there. I am thinking of dropping some races or doing something but I don't know what I should do. I think I may want to drop either Halflings or Gnomes...and I am leaning to Gnomes.

In my game it has taken a turn from the traditional Tolkien/Gygax type of game in many ways. For example I was inspired by Fading Suns RPG to include an aspect of racism. Humans are the dominate race by far. Other races are not and are dominated by humans in some way. So far I found a rational for the races.

Anyhow if there is an interest in anyone wanting to help me tweak my campaign I will post more.

 

[Kask]

In my game it has taken a turn from the traditional Tolkien/Gygax type of game in many ways. For example I was inspired by Fading Suns RPG to include an aspect of racism. Humans are the dominate race by far. Other races are not and are dominated by humans in some way.

What you just described IS the traditional "Gygaxian" set up. See 1st Ed racial class limitations.

That being said, develop your world and drop or add any races as you see fit. There's nothing in the rules that says a DM has to allow ANY race.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That being said, develop your world and drop or add any races as you see fit. There's nothing in the rules that says a DM has to allow ANY race.

I agree with this 95%.

The other 5% realized while designing a VERY alternative D&D campaign setting that some players will not be interested in playing if the possibility of playing humans is removed...even if they don't intend to play a human!

 

[Aries_Omega]

What you just described IS the traditional "Gygaxian" set up. See 1st Ed racial class limitations.

I can see what you mean. I didn't give detail.

Okay as I said I have been influenced by games like Fading Suns and Warhammer 40K. Humans are dominate...and oppressive. The do not see elves and other races "humans but with this". There is some big racism to it. Halflings are kept around since they run the farms and dwarves are hired as mercenaries. When they came across to gnomes, no fight they just gave up their kingdom. Some gnomes feel that the gnome king is a big traitor and refuse to acknowledge the agreements for peace. When the humans came across elves...the found wild, forest dwelling savages. Think like the Kagonesti from Dragonlance. When they tried to "resettle" them that is when they started a war with a mysterious race of armored beings that move quick and fast and weild terrible magic....regular every day high elves...except with more mithral items.

My question is...why two "small" races. What non-PHB races do you think would go good? Like I said I read lots of Fading Suns and see the interaction between their races like the Obun, Urkai, Gannok, Shantor and so on and want the same thing with my game. Should I include another "large race" to balance the half orc?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) One of the concepts I experimented with was including the vast panoply of "Planetouched" races (including those from Dragon). Some people liked the idea.

OTOH, in a world where humans are very racist, "half races" present special issues, sometimes dependent upon exactly where in the world they are.

Either they have a REALLY tough time in both sides of their heritage; they have a special higher status among the oppressed (and possibly among the oppressors); they are killed at birth by one or both aspects of their heritage.

One way to think about this is the way slaves were treated in the Southern US before the Civil War. In some areas, slaves had zero upward mobility. In others, freedmen were allowed to own slaves and prosper, but still couldn't vote or enter certain areas, etc.

Then there was New Orleans. Because of the city's unique nature, a singular subculture arose there, one in which race relations were far more intricate and complex than anywhere else in the pre-CW USA, including a very powerful heirarchy of mixed race "quadroons" etc. who could be quite wealthy...and nearly as privileged as some whites.

2) If you don't want 2 small races, either choose one and run with it, or ditch them both and make your own.

3) For other races, there are hordes all over WotC's products- the various Planetouched (mentioned before), some of the "monster" races (Githzerai, Half-Giants) and templates from the various MMs and Savage Species (I like the Woodling Template, myself), setting specific ones like Shifters, Warforged and Thri-Kreen, or book-specific ones (Xephs, Dusklings) and so forth.

Other good sources: Monte Cook's AU/AE (Litorians), Dragonstar (esp. the Galactic Races sourcebook), Star Wars setting (Wookies? Ewoks), Urban Arcana D20 Modern setting (Sasquatch?) and DCv1.

You don't necessarily have to use them as is, of course- a simple reskinning can be quite effective in bringing something new to the table.

 

[Aries_Omega]

As usual Danny I can count on you to throw your two cents in and give me gold. Maybe not for me but I always enjoy what you have to write. This got me thinking. I have all those books you mentioned in your post. It is late...so bear with me if this post doesn't make sense folks.

Also thanks Kask...sometimes you concentrate so much on one thing...you forget rule 1. DM makes the rules. Unfortunately I need inspiration and ideas.

OTOH, in a world where humans are very racist, "half races" present special issues, sometimes dependent upon exactly where in the world they are.

Either they have a REALLY tough time in both sides of their heritage; they have a special higher status among the oppressed (and possibly among the oppressors); they are killed at birth by one or both aspects of their heritage.

Oh yeah...forgot to mention that. Okay...remember how I said Elves fought humans? They stopped because earlier orc, goblins and bugbears (oh my) were ousted from their lands...by humans. You guessed it. During the Elf-Human war they united and decided to fight both humans and elves. Humans and elves united, fought them off and are now somewhat neutral. Half Elves are either standard PHB Half elves...raised among humans. Very similiar to half elves in other settings or are what is called "elfborn"...using the half elf raised by elves info in the DMG. They are more enduring then elves but are second class citizens...once again...like half elves in other campaigns. Depending on where you are it goes from "we don't serve your kind" to "hang him by his ears boys". Half orcs are in the same boat, but are not raised in the main empire but rather by barbarian tribes who where...you guessed it ousted by the imperial humans. Those raised by orcs are called "orcborn" and are basically half orcs with more "orc". Before the Great War, elves, dwarves, halflings and the like are thought to have no soul. After the Great War, since they fought along side humans they have one...not a human one...it doesn't get to go to "human heaven" but to their own heaven. Orcs, goblins and bugbears (oh my) have no soul still. Killing one is NOT murder to the "imperialistic" humans.

One way to think about this is the way slaves were treated in the Southern US before the Civil War. In some areas, slaves had zero upward mobility. In others, freedmen were allowed to own slaves and prosper, but still couldn't vote or enter certain areas, etc.

Yep...thats about right...further towards the capital of the "imperial humans" you get the worst off you are if you not human.

Then there was New Orleans. Because of the city's unique nature, a singular subculture arose there, one in which race relations were far more intricate and complex than anywhere else in the pre-CW USA, including a very powerful heirarchy of mixed race "quadroons" etc. who could be quite wealthy...and nearly as privileged as some whites.

That's where I usually set the game. IN the farthest end from the capital. In this case it is a ultra thick forest. It is the frontier full of wealth. Tribal elves, dwarves who don't live underground...earthquake shut them out of their ancestral homeland, gnomes are little people who polish stones and lend money but mischievous fey the live in camouflaged towns.

2) If you don't want 2 small races, either choose one and run with it, or ditch them both and make your own.

3) For other races, there are hordes all over WotC's products- the various Planetouched (mentioned before), some of the "monster" races (Githzerai, Half-Giants) and templates from the various MMs and Savage Species (I like the Woodling Template, myself), setting specific ones like Shifters, Warforged and Thri-Kreen, or book-specific ones (Xephs, Dusklings) and so forth.

Other good sources: Monte Cook's AU/AE (Litorians), Dragonstar (esp. the Galactic Races sourcebook), Star Wars setting (Wookies? Ewoks), Urban Arcana D20 Modern setting (Sasquatch?) and DCv1.

You don't necessarily have to use them as is, of course- a simple reskinning can be quite effective in bringing something new to the table.

I kinda want to include something. I want to bring something to the table that will help make it feel like it's different. As is I only allow in a 6 person part two non-humans. I play up the racism and all. I try to make it feel like Fading Suns without the Fading Suns. I don't have 31 flavors of elves...just two for sure people know about...high and wild...rumored to have drow...never seen them. I have 4 flavors of dwarves. Standard, Mountain (more focus, LN and don't actually dig into mountains...just live high up on them), Deep (They did the opposite of Mountain Dwarves...they went deeper. They are Gold Dwarves from FR...serial numbers filed off) and Sundered (The big quake locked them out of the mountain. Great engineers and inventors. Firearms are their big thing).

I am not sure about halflings. I have the typical fat hobbit type. Tall ones that ride horses type...they live among high elves mostly...mistaken for elven children sometimes. The ones that live among dwarves and nomadic gypsy...the standard one from PHB. Is that too much?

Gnomes...just two. Standard rock gnome and the mischevious fey like forest gnome.

Humans...no "races" just ethnicity. One just call them "imperial"...think like the Telmarines from Narnia. One...call them "barbarians". They were displaced by the "imperials". Treated like Europeans treated Native Americans. Hey thanks for showing us how to live here now get off my land and go away. A third the came over with the imperials...call them "merchants". They speak funny, all about trade and wealth. Lastly call them "pirates". They are dark skin, have African features and live at sea their whole lives. They allied with the imperials during the Great War since Orcs could build good warships. They turned to privateering for the imperials and after the war are now basiclly the Navy for the imperials.

Is that too many races? Is that enough races? Should I maybe do a big race...say something like the Norn from Guild Wars? Should I have a non human looking something or other? Is there something missing. Should I allow orcs, goblins, and bugbears (oh my) in...or keep them for "freak show character night" games? Do you need more details about the campain to help you all understand it better?

 

[Nellisir]

My question is...why two "small" races.

This is a very weird question to me. Why not two "small" races? Why five "medium" races? Would gnomes and halflings somehow make more sense if they were medium sized?

Anyways, my settings is pretty generic fantasy, but I always drop at least two PH races (usually half-orcs and halflings) and add in a few (fuah, bridge trolls, roane, jotunar, or leshii, depending on the area and the game). I find it does alot to personalize the campaign. It's also important to use some of the variant races as NPCs, and integrate them into the setting.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Is that too many races?

If you look at 3PP games like Nyambe, Northern Crown, and Swashbuckling Adventures, and even WotC's own Forgotten Realms to a certain extent, they break down humans into countries or regions, each of which have their own unique stat adjustments and even Feat abilities.

It works quite well for humans, but there is no reason you can't have similar variations for other races, which will give both you AND your players a wide selection without "Baskin Robbins-ing" the races. You could thus have, say...6 races, but as many variants within them as you have countries.

Dwarves, for instance, who live largely enslaved in the mines or cities in one region might have different stat adjustments and even racial familiarity (more Picks, Mauls and Hammers than Axes and Urgoshes) with weapons than those who grew up in a still independent mountain keep 600 miles away.

IOW, many of your "sub-races" would be reskinned as "ethnicities," "tribes," or some other kind of regional variant. Those 2 kinds of elf would really be one, only with cultural differences distinguishing them.

Only when you have something truly different- like Elves (or Gnomes or whatever) fully adapted for living underground, underwater, or even another plane would you truly have "sub-races."

Some might see this as a difference without distinction, and to an extent, they're right.

However, going with "culture" rather than "sub-race," you gain the advantage of being able to introduce new kinds of Elves or what have you without having to ret-con your campaign to explain why these guys just showed up. The fact that your party has wandered far and wide would be explanation enough- Gnomes from 2000 miles North or East or West or South of the campaign starting point may well have truly alien cultural values and skillsets as compared to those the PCs would be more familiar with.

gnomes are little people who polish stones and lend money but mischievous fey the live in camouflaged towns.

One idea I've been toying with but haven't implemented is developing a "Fey" template of some kind, to simulate those who have a true connection to that otherworldly realm. Its not for every type of campaign, but still...

For races like Gnomes and Elves, "Fey-template" individuals would be greatly respected as representatives of what they used to be.

For Humans, though, the "Fey-template" might simulate the Changelings, or even those with faerie blessings.

As for the template's exact nature, I haven't worked it all out, but I currently envision it as granting additional proficiency with arcane magic- the PC picks a school to get a DC bonus or some such- while also adding Geomancer-style Drift to the PC.

In addition, though, they gain a vulnerability to Cold Iron, and (probably) have a 1-step smaller HD/level in their classes (d4 becomes d4-1)

 

[Drowbane]

Yes!

You should absolutely drop the following: 1/2 elves, 1/2 orcs, and gnomes.

No special reason, I'm just biased that way.

edit: Orcs and/or Hobgoblins (without the 1 LA) make suitable replacements for 1/2 orcs.

 

[Raduin711]

Halflings fill the role of the "cunning" little people, the sly ones, the fast ones, and the plain old agrarian ones.

Gnomes are the "magical" little people, the pranksters, the sages, the peaceful, forest dwelling magical folk.

I personally enjoy gnomes a lot, so If I were playing in a game where they were vetoed because my DM couldn't find a place for them, I would probably be a little sore.

That said, Gnomes are also one of the least used races, and if you don't have any players that would possibly be interested in playing one, and you don't see yourself using them, then I don't see a point in working them into your campaign's history. You never know, you may find use for these little folk some time in your game... but I am guessing probably not. To each their own.