Races of Destiny: Buying/Bought?

[3catcircus]

Why bother? I just don't see any need whatsoever for the Races of... books or the Environmental books (Frostburn, etc.)

There are *already* a ton of 1st/2nd and 3.x/d20 books out there detailing various races. There are *already* a few sources detailing environmental stuff (heck, even the old DSG and WSG books did a good job.)

In fact, the only reason I purchased the Complete... books is because I am lazy and don't feel like converting the splat books to 3.5, since that is all they really are.

The only recent non-Forgotten Realms book I really saw as a bit different and possibly worth picking up was Libris Mortis.

 

[shady]

Well, does it give this all a fantasy twist. Sure, I know a lot about the modern human but there is potential to take the human race and make it a bit differernt becasue of the fantasy, and lower technology aspects. Even without the magic, humans were quitre a bit different 600 years ago.

Mostly it tells you nothing about humans, half orcs and half elves you didn't already know, from the core books or from INT>1 inference. Ditto those races in the "additional races" section that have been detailed elsewhere. The new stuff is basically the Illumians, a couple of new deities (presumably for Greyhawk), new domain stuff, the new feats and PrCs (some of which are Illumian specific), and some urban encounter/design stuff, which is pretty inadequate and would have been far better dealt with in a terrain book, a la Frostburn.

For an RPG book, it has less useful new RPG stuff than the miniatures handbook, which was ostensibly not an RPG book.

My other objection on the humans coverage is that it doesn't think outside the box. The assumption of "races of destiny" is that humans will become the dominant race, and that the half-breeds are probably outcasts. More stuff about using humans in different ways would have been more useful, I think, even it had meant changing the book's title.

I actually think the Illumians stuff is kind of OK, but not worth the price of entry.

 

[Gez]

What's funny is, I'm kinda sure if the illumians had been introduced in a campaign setting (say, Eberron), they would have gathered much more interest, and more people would be trying to see how to fit them in their setting...

 

[Silveras]

Well, does it give this all a fantasy twist. Sure, I know a lot about the modern human but there is potential to take the human race and make it a bit differernt becasue of the fantasy, and lower technology aspects. Even without the magic, humans were quitre a bit different 600 years ago.

Not really, no. For example, in the Human Life section (Lifestyle information), Leisure, the information is:

Humans are hardworking people who throw themselves into whatever they are involved in. However, they also crave leisure time and often complain they they simply don't have the time to relax as much as they want. Humans work hard, but they play just as hard.

Like everything else in their lives, what humans consider leisure can vary from region to region or person to person. One human society might esteem calligraphy and poetry as leisure activities, while the humans in the nation across the river spend their free time dancing and drumming. Even within the same society, members of different social classes do different things with their time away from work and family chores. A human noble might hunt stags, while a human blacksmith spends his spare time arm-wrestling in the local pub.

The other sections are equally bland. The section on warfare, for example, cites human use of horses as a defining characteristic (the other being building and destroying fortified structures). Many real-world human cultures did not have or use horses (Native Americans, for example, until Europeans brought them).

The "A Day in the Life" section, for example, is more like six ten-minute snippets from six different sample persons, in an effort (I suppose) to illustrate the wide variety of human experience. Nothing in them smacks of magic or fantasy. Aside from the soldier grabbing specifically "her polearm" instead of "her gun", each could as easily be from a modern or historical novel, or even a newspaper story.

If anything, the context sounds very modern to me. Entertainers as celebrities, rapidly-changing tastes in the audience, the notion that humans feel like they can't take enough time to relax, and so on, all sound more like the traits of modern society than they do of a quasi-medieval culture.

 

[Silveras]

What's funny is, I'm kinda sure if the illumians had been introduced in a campaign setting (say, Eberron), they would have gathered much more interest, and more people would be trying to see how to fit them in their setting...

That's quite likely true. The concept itself does not bother me; the devotion of so much space, at the expense of other topics I consider equally, or MORE, worthy of coverage, is what I object to.

 

[Silveras]

Why bother? I just don't see any need whatsoever for the Races of... books or the Environmental books (Frostburn, etc.)

There are *already* a ton of 1st/2nd and 3.x/d20 books out there detailing various races. There are *already* a few sources detailing environmental stuff (heck, even the old DSG and WSG books did a good job.)

In fact, the only reason I purchased the Complete... books is because I am lazy and don't feel like converting the splat books to 3.5, since that is all they really are.

The only recent non-Forgotten Realms book I really saw as a bit different and possibly worth picking up was Libris Mortis.

Actually, I was much more pleased with both Frostburn and Races of Stone than I am with Races of Destiny.

The DMG covers basic "Temperate Zone" forests, marshes, hills, plains, etc. Frostburn provided the same coverage of arctic, high-altitude, and magically cold (ie., the icy planes of the Hells and elsewhere) versions of each of those terrains, as well as adding ice sheets, frozen lakes, and snow fields. Likewise, the DMG covers "basic" building materials like stone, wood, and earth. Frostburn details snow and ice as construction materials, and ties them in with the material in the core. Additional rules for environmental hazards are discussed.

Races of Stone discusses Dwarves and Gnomes, and adds the race of Goliaths. While the Goliaths do not really do anything for me, the chapters on Dwarves and Gnomes do provide useful information. Different race proportions, for example, than in the DMG.

I have the old 1st Ed materials as well. If you can't be bothered to adapt the 3.0 splatbooks to 3.5, how likely is it that you will find the time to convert/adapt even older (and arguably more different) material to the current rules ?

Sure, I can still make use of my old 1E books. I *still* think the Wilderness Survival Guide's weather generation system is superior to everything I have seen since. However, if the simplified system in the DMG (and expanded in the Environment books) is "close enough", why triple the work to add 2% more "realism" to a fantasy universe ?

However, this thread is more about how valuable Races of Destiny is. I bought it, and I find it highly disappointing.

[edit: To be clear, one should remember that WotC is trying to sell to people who *do not* necessarily have the old 1E books. The target audience is, I believe, generally newer gamers. That the books should sell to older gamers is also desired, but less important. In that sense, I think Races of Destiny fails to provide much. ]

 

[Silveras]

Thanks, that's a useful summary. I could probably find a use for about 15 pages of this, generally the skills and the fluff for half-elves, half-orcs, half-ogres, aasimar, skulks and mongrelfolk. Are genasi mentioned at all?

No, no Genasi. As far as I have seen, they are "Forgotten Realms" material, and are only supported in FR products. They do, however, get a number of feats in Races of Faerun, as do Aasimar and Tieflings.

 

[megamania]

Planned to skip it and maybe buy it on a rainy day buy if to read but after what I have read ....maybe I'll buy some more mini's instead.

Such is life. :\

 

[Gez]

If anything, the context sounds very modern to me. Entertainers as celebrities, rapidly-changing tastes in the audience, the notion that humans feel like they can't take enough time to relax, and so on, all sound more like the traits of modern society than they do of a quasi-medieval culture.

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