D&D 5E Racial Deities

[Eubani]

What are peoples thoughts on racial deities? Are they good or bad and why. Pro and Cons. Do they add anything worthwhile flavorwise?

 

[Li Shenron]

Personally I have never liked them, and I have usually reflavored them into something else.

For example, I normally just say that Moradin is the god of mountains. Dwarves are free to call him the god of dwarves, but that mostly means it's the dwarf to choose Moradin and not the other way around. It's ok that Moradin is especially fond of dwarves, but to me it's not ok for a deity to be just the patron god of a single race of creatures. I tend to represent deities as more encompassing than that, and often a bit more fuzzy and abstract.

Similarly, I have often presented racial pantheons as legendary heroes or great ancestors, rather than true deities.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I personally found the "raising" of several racial deities (Moradin, Corellon, Gruumsh, Lolth, Bahamat, Tiamat) to "standard" deities in the 4E cosmology was awesome. I liked the fact that there weren't gods for specific races anymore, but rather that there were just gods... and while certain races might favor one god over others (so dwarves on the whole tended to worship Moradin more than other ones), any being could worship any god.

It always seemed that for those settings where races had their own pantheons, members of the non-human races oftentimes would still worship the "human" deities anyway... and yet it seemed extremely rare for the inverse to occur-- a human worshipping a non-human deity. And that kind of "humanocentric" way of looking at things just struck me as odd and didn't really sit well with me.

So to just wipe those away in 4E... to pare down the pantheon so that there was only one god that you might consider "dwarf-like" and one that was "elf-like", and "orc-like" etc. etc., but all of whom were still popular and worshipped by humans, and the few "human-like" gods were popular and worshipped by the other races too equally, was a bonus step as far as I was concerned. And as a matter of fact... I've begun prepping my potential next campaign and setting it in one of lands in the Nerathi setting (that of the Nentir Vale). And in keeping with this idea of non-specific racial deities being standard deities for everyone, I've actually expanded the 4E cosmology to include several more:

- Garl is the god of humor, trickery, and natural skill, and is a favored deity of the gnomes
- Yondalla is the goddess of family, security and tradition, and is a favored deity of the halflings
- Maglubiyet replaces Bane and is the god of aggression, conquest and instinct, and is a favored deity of the goblinoids

Thus with now 13 good deities and 9 evil ones... pretty much every one of the primary races in the setting has a god they favor, but which are not exclusive to that race, every being can and does worship every other one. And I find this much more interesting and compelling for me than having a pantheon of 30 "human" gods, and another 10 "dwarf" gods, and 10 "elf" gods, and 10 "gnome" gods and "halfling" gods and "orc" gods and "drow" gods etc. My new pantheon is much more manageable and interesting to me.

 

[Maxperson]

What are peoples thoughts on racial deities? Are they good or bad and why. Pro and Cons. Do they add anything worthwhile flavorwise?

I love them. The 2e Monster Mythology is still one of my favorite supplements. Read it if you haven't yet.

 

[Irennan]

What are peoples thoughts on racial deities? Are they good or bad and why. Pro and Cons. Do they add anything worthwhile flavorwise?

I'm really fond of them, but only when their history and what they are is strictly tied to that of their people. For example, in the Realms the elves and their gods (which includes the drow and their gods) share a special kind of relationship. They aren't just names to worship, they have been and still are pillars of the history of those races, they greatly influence their cultures, mindset and so on--sme of them have made their goals and quests all about their people. They are also very interesting characters on their own. The Realms were lessened when WotC tried to take away a lot of them in 4e, and I'm really happy that the Sundering/5e Forgotten Realms restored *all* of them

Some people say that deities are abstract or something along those lines. IMO some deities should be that (greater deities that embody vast concepts, like a deity of magic), but some others should be concrete. There's nothing wrong with a deity embodying the concept of a race. IMO, having such figures who have all that importance to their people only adds depth and flavour (note that I don't care whether you call them exarchs, heroes, demipowers, w/e. What matters to me is that they are there, important to their people as a deity would be).

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I often found that having such a large quantity of gods in the lore makes the selection of a deity meaningless for many players: they read through the the first 20 and say ''whatever, I'll take this one''. This is why I use the Dawn War pantheon, with only 8 or 9 gods of good and 9 evils, the choice is easier and they can easily notice the difference between two of them. It also allows human players to worship ''racial'' deities, because they also cover a more generic folio. A human arcana cleric could be worshiping Corelon because of his domain over Arcana, even if he isnt an Eladrin.

I still use the lesser gods of the old pantheon as exarch, exalted or angel of a specific deity, eg: Maglubiyet is an exarch of Bane, Vergadain is an exalted of Moradin etc

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Depends on whether the deity is an actual god. While most of Eberron's deities, (whether gods or not) aren't racial, there are some elf-specific ones. (The undying court and the Spirits of the Past), which both embody elven ancestors. A human might be able to gain power from them if they had enough elven blood in them, but otherwise they are pretty much Elf or Half-Elf only.

 

[Irennan]

I often found that having such a large quantity of gods in the lore makes the selection of a deity meaningless for many players: they read through the the first 20 and say ''whatever, I'll take this one''. This is why I use the Dawn War pantheon, with only 8 or 9 gods of good and 9 evils, the choice is easier and they can easily notice the difference between two of them. It also allows human players to worship ''racial'' deities, because they also cover a more generic folio. A human arcana cleric could be worshiping Corelon because of his domain over Arcana, even if he isnt an Eladrin.

I still use the lesser gods of the old pantheon as exarch, exalted or angel of a specific deity, eg: Maglubiyet is an exarch of Bane, Vergadain is an exalted of Moradin etc

That's why IMO, it's all in the presentation. Offer a list with the main deities of the setting, and most people will pick from it. Those who want to go more in-depth and take more niche deities will also have access to deeper lore, which wouldn't be forced on anyone. However, a lot of deities add much flavour to the setting, because they tell a lot of about culture and uses, and about their people. They add even more to the story an to the world when they are involved in the history of their people. It's like in RW, where pantheons included tons of niche deities (and recreating that feeling--a lot of local deities--was Ed Greenwood's goal in creating the Realms). They contribute to making the experience more immersive, as I see it.

In this way, both those who want a more focused choice, and those who enjoy variety will be satisfied. The DM will also be provided with more tools to portray the world, and more plot hooks and potential storyline if they want to, without being forced to read about all of that.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I also liked 4e's universal deity list. I tend to use the notion that the gods are more interested in expanding their portfolio than in getting souls (so if Lolth is the goddess of strife and discord, she gets more power the more strife and discord there are in the mortal worlds). Organized religion and shaping "chosen" races are efficiencies--there is always somebody working on your portfolio.

 

[Mercule]

Depends on the setting. For one home brew, I use them for some races, but not all. This is the same way that, say, Eberron has the Aerenal and Valenar "racial" religions, but there's still a big bucket-o-gods that span races. I would be totally open to gods that are defined only by portfolio, without racial portfolios. I could also see worlds where every god is patron to a specific race, potentially with multiple patrons per race. Or, even, gods by portfolios with races that tend to gravitate towards certain portfolios.

What I don't like, though, is a situation where each race has a handful of racial gods but humans have a billion gods -- or, human have no gods and the billions are just "general purpose". While I do prefer a human-centric game, I find that to be somewhat jarring. If it's human-centric in the extreme, then just do no racial gods or one, max. If it's anything else, then it just doesn't make sense.

Actually, what makes the most sense is to have the big-bucket-o-gods divvied up into pantheons. Those pantheons are worshiped by various cultural groups, some of which happen to also be racial groups -- assuming the setting's races are segregated. Just don't intermingle the Norse, Greek, and Sumerian (as an example) deities as if they were one group while separating out the fairy folk from the Tuatha de Danann.