Ranger/Thief backstab question

[Fisk]

Well I guess that will be the last time I try to squeeze off a quick post before leaving work(quick read, no spell check).
Ya … spelling that’s flame worthy material. Do you flame punctuation too?
What other items of significance to you flame for…..????

By the way how did the statistical analysis of the fighter picking locks and finding/disarming traps work out?

As far as sarcasm ….. now which of you who cast the stones was without sin?

The Chap (graydoom) who posted the quoted and insanely long post. I got carpal tunnel syndrome by proxy.
By the way your point in which you pose the point that "maybe the creature will continue to be unable to 'effectively defend itself''. Was indeed a good argument. But do to the fact that you used MAYBE does put a degree of doubt that each of the remaining attacks would be eligible for sneak attack bonus damage. I will concede that it is possible. Which leads me to wonder what would be a workable solution? Since I don't feel it should be automatic for the remaining attacks I think it would be appropriate to give the creature a reflex save on each attack to avoid the additional bonus damage.

Clue me in here….. if a post with a little spice that questions the "group think" is inappropriate then tell me what is. Is this a forum where you tell each other what the books say?

Oh and the day a guy who has a cartoon under his name to "represent him" makes me feel bad is the same day I enter into a covenant to never be sarcastic again.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Clue me in here….. if a post with a little spice that questions the "group think" is inappropriate then tell me what is. Is this a forum where you tell each other what the books say?

Generally it seems that that is the primary purpose of this forum.

While alternative proposals are made in here, they're probably better suited to House Rules. If they're simply branches from a rules-interpretation thread, they're unlikely to be shifted... but you should label your post as being a house rule and not an interpretation of canon.

Given that I'm fairly new here, I could be getting that wrong But that seems to be the prominent trend.

-Hyp.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Especially the Rules forum seems to be designed to answer Rules Questions. Sometimes it may be "abused" to offer alternative rules, and sometimes it is used to clarify contradicting rule wordings.

But for the Rogue and its game balance:
We play D&D for about a year now, with different campaigns, with characters up to 12th level, I believe.

It has shown that everything is better balanced than some people (including some reading and posting on this board) might think.
There are many ways to "power up" your characters, but never to the sacrifice of the importance of other characters.
And it is often all about a team work (A Rogue without a Fighter on the other side or a Cleric with its Cure Light and Undead Turning will not be succesfull in the long run - but the fighter and the cleric won`t be good without the Rogue, too)

(I think the only "major" flaw in the whole D&D System is the fact that when you multiclass a lot, your Saves go up like hell, but your BAB stinks

Okay, maybe there is still another flaw - D&D Rules are VERY abstract. Hitpoints?
But, well, that`s the way D&D always was, wasn`t it? )

 

[Lunn]

Nightfang

You might like to download the D&D Game Rule FAQ from the WotC site. It may answer some of your questions. I know that it has helped me.

 

[MeanGenes]

Hi Fisk,
The people on this board are acting flippant because this exact same thread came up only a few days ago by someone with the same question as you. And the fact of the matter is that these people are right.
The problem is that (aside from the way you did combat), that things look powerful on paper, but are not so in practice. The monk on paper is written to be a unstoppable god. Spell resistance? Evasion? The best saves? 6 attacks/rd at high level? d20 unarmed damage? Where do I sign up?!
But in practice, the monk sucks. The monk lags behind the other melee classes in terms of average damage and in HP. While they are more capable versus magic wielding monsters, they are much worse versus physical damage-dealing monsters. In all the campaigns I've played in, the monk was always outshined by the fighters, clerics, mages, and rogues.
On paper, 5 sneak attacks/round at high level sounds nasty...and it IS nasty. But a min/maxed fighter still shells out more damage over the long haul. The times when a rogue will actually pull off all 5 sneak attacks is very rare.
Rogues have a BAB that is only 3/4 that of the fighter, and will only end up hitting about 3/4 as often.
Sneak attacks are countered by 1) creatures immune to critical hits 2) characters wearing fortification armor 3) ANY concealment (darkness, invisibility, blur spell, etc.) 4) a similar level barb/rogue.
And you have to play smart opponents intelligently. If a character has an 8 or higher intelligence, they should know better than to just stand there and eat sneak attacks. They will fight back to back with their friends, or will just take a 5 foot step to get out of flanking position, or they'll cast a spell which gives them concealment. And finally, any creature that is being sneak attacked will know it and they will concentrate their efforts on killing the rogue. Since rogues have less HP than fighters, they will not last nearly as long.
Play the opponents as they should be played and the rogue will find that he gets far less sneak attacks than if he is fighting a stupid animal that just sits there and claws/bites.
I know the urge is to just make up a house rule for anything that sounds too powerful. But give the game a chance as it is first. They play-tested the 3rd edition rules for many months and if one class truly outshined another, then it would have been fixed by now.

 

[mmu1]

Clue me in here….. if a post with a little spice that questions the "group think" is inappropriate then tell me what is. Is this a forum where you tell each other what the books say?

Yes, this is the forum where we "tell each other what the books say" in case someone doesn't quite get it. Clearly not as trivial as you make it out to be, or we wouldn't have been treated to those misplaced droppings-of-wisdom from you. And if you think anyone here is going to be impressed by the standards of half-wit or trolling you display then you clearly haven't been around long enough...

Your extremely cutting remark about using cartoons to represent ourselves did, however, cut right to the bone, so I think I'll go away now and nurse my hurt feelings... With therapy, I might yet recover - scarred, but wise enough not to cross words with you ever again.

 

[dcollins]

From the Official D&D FAQ by Wizards of the Coast, page 5:

I don’t see any limit on the number of sneak attacks a rogue
can make in a round. Suppose a high-level rogue is hiding.
Two villains walk within 5 feet of her. Can the rogue use an
attack of opportunity as a sneak attack and then, assuming
she gets initiative, make as many sneak attacks as she has
attacks? Can she sneak attack each of the villains? What if
the rogue has a bow? If she has Rapid Shot, does this
increase the number of sneak attacks she can make?

A rogue deals extra damage with a sneak attack anytime the
target is denied Dexterity bonus to AC or anytime the rogue
flanks the target, no matter how many attacks the rogue makes.
These conditions are not likely to occur during an attack of
opportunity, but if they do (such as when the rogue is unseen),
the rogue gets her sneak attack bonus damage. The same holds
true for ranged weapons (but see the next question), provided
that the rogue is within 30 feet of her target. Note that sneak
attacks are never possible when the rogue cannot see her target.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Greydoom,

/me applauds!!!

Hyper - niave pronounced knee- ave - this could be another term for a genuflection but if it is I have no idea where it might fit in with the discussion

And making fun of others' spelling mistake does?

Fisk was a bit arrogant, I admit. But you guys must remember that D&D is played all over the world and not everyone speaks english fluently on this planet...

By making fun of someone's imperfect grasp of the english language, you will discourage posting (no one likes to be flamed) and we might loose some very interesting discussions...

Of course, Frisk may speak english perfectly and write it acordingly, his mistakes being the result of a topic posted without verification or spell checking. Making fun of this doesn't bring much to the discussion and might turn it into a flame war and no one likes that.

In short, criticize someone's ideas, not the way he expresses them please...

 

[Vaxalon]

The spelling of "ROGUE" is harped on and harped on on this board. Anyone who has been here for any length of time is going to know the proper spelling.

 

[BlindKobold]

Well, my players are in for many shocks this weekend. Finally tired of how quickly my monsters are being chopped up, I re-read the combat chapter three times. Each time, I noticed something I was doing wrong with combat. I have been playing 3ed for 7 months now, and I am still learning.

Another shock they have coming to them is a reset of the loot and magic items they have. Suddenly, their magic items are going to be become normal, masterwork items. I am going to be more careful with the loot distribution, which I have been doing very badly.

Thanks for the input, I am going to show that ranger/thief a thing or two. =)

Wow... that is pretty freakin lame of you. I hope you have more than the "I AM GOD AND THIS IS WHAT I SAY" reason for changing their magic items into non-magical.

If I was playing in that campaign and you did something ultra lame like that, I'd pretty much stand up, grab my books and look for another DM.

Personally, I try not to punish players for the DM's short-comings or mistakes. SUCK IT UP! You goofed. Try to slowing work in something that gradually changes the balance of power.

Have them discover an artifact that drains other magic items each time it is used and eventually must be destroyed.... use SOMETHING creative! Remember... it's not THEIR fault that they have the magic items... YOU gave them the stuff.