D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Paul Farquhar]

I would be extremely surprised if Lanefan has a positive reaction to knowing this, as IIRC he does not play 5e and has a skeptical view of many things it does. Might be better to give examples from one of the TSR editions.

Oh, did I just see a moving goalpost?

 

[TwoSix]

Oh, did I just see a moving goalpost?

More just a general awareness of what arguments different posters will make.

 

[AlViking]

Okay. How much leeway am I permitted for developing advance information? Very very little in DW (which is the specific PbtA game I'll be building this from, since it's the one I've run for several years and know best) ever occurs without preceding context. The only thing that doesn't occur with (as much) starting context is whatever things begin at the very very start with, since (naturally) there hasn't been between 1 and umpteen prior sessions to establish that context.

I assume you will want examples of lock-picking that occurs in the two scenarios you laid out--a house which is known to have fallen on hard times and thus have no servants present (bit unrealistic, since a large house with no servants would likely just be shuttered rather than lived-in, and thus the whole scenario has completely changed, but I digress), and a building of some kind (unlikely to be a country estate) which was once a large residence but is now an abandoned building taken over by (semi-)organized ne'er-do-wells? Are there any other scenarios you would like me to explore?

I'll warn you, even by my usual standards this reply will almost certainly be very long, because I'm going to be examining at least two very different scenarios and exploring a variety of possible pathways GMs could take things. The actual number is "nigh infinite", but I know you want specific, concrete possibilities, so that would be my focus.

If you only ever use this concept in a PbtA game and never in a D&D game then I don't see how that it applies to D&D. The games have a completely different frame of reference, we may as well be discussing American football vs UK football without ever clarifying which one we're talking about.

If you have an example of anything from a D&D game you've played feel free to share. I will do my best to comprehend it all.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Oh, did I just see a moving goalpost?

....no? Like, literally, no, in no way whatsoever?

I'm literally saying that the example given won't be meaningful or useful to Lanefan because, as far as I can tell, he doesn't play 5e and couldn't care less whether it does or doesn't do any particular thing. Hence, if one is trying to make an argument on the basis of something present in "D&D" to Lanefan, it would be more helpful to present that argument using an example in something Lanefan likes, works with, and/or plays.

For God's sake, I wasn't even making an argument here! I was literally just trying to help someone make their argument land, by saying that the specific example given wouldn't speak to that one specific person.

Did I just see someone engaging in ad hominem?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

If you only ever use this concept in a PbtA game and never in a D&D game then I don't see how that it applies to D&D. The games have a completely different frame of reference, we may as well be discussing American football vs UK football without ever clarifying which one we're talking about.

If you have an example of anything from a D&D game you've played feel free to share. I will do my best to comprehend it all.

...

So, let me get this straight. You want me to give you demonstrations of Fail Forward...in the contexts where that technique appears...

But you demand that it ONLY be examples from campaigns specifically using D&D?

Are you serious?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Did I just see someone engaging in ad hominem?

I don't know, I don't speak French.

 

[Emerikol]

For me, the fail forward thing has been the most interesting thing to follow.

Thanks for the help.

So when we talk about fail forward, I always think of the Star Wars game with that extra die that indicates some nuance on the result. Am I in the right ballpark? I'm definitely not against those things but I'd want to be careful to keep it in the DM's control. That might mean just rolling that extra die behind the screen. See players see the die results and they know the rules so they expect a result. In most cases that can work but in some instances it doesn't make sense and I'd rather just avoid all the debate in those situation.

 

[Emerikol]

....no? Like, literally, no, in no way whatsoever?

I'm literally saying that the example given won't be meaningful or useful to Lanefan because, as far as I can tell, he doesn't play 5e and couldn't care less whether it does or doesn't do any particular thing. Hence, if one is trying to make an argument on the basis of something present in "D&D" to Lanefan, it would be more helpful to present that argument using an example in something Lanefan likes, works with, and/or plays.

For God's sake, I wasn't even making an argument here! I was literally just trying to help someone make their argument land, by saying that the specific example given wouldn't speak to that one specific person.

Did I just see someone engaging in ad hominem?

No good deed goes unpunished EzekielRaiden. If someone disagrees with you, the interpretation of motives is always the most evil possible.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Thanks for the help.

So when we talk about fail forward, I always think of the Star Wars game with that extra die that indicates some nuance on the result. Am I in the right ballpark? I'm definitely not against those things but I'd want to be careful to keep it in the DM's control. That might mean just rolling that extra die behind the screen. See players see the die results and they know the rules so they expect a result. In most cases that can work but in some instances it doesn't make sense and I'd rather just avoid all the debate in those situation.

I don't understand how FF could ever...not be kept in the GM's control. It's purely expressed in how GMs frame scenes where someone failed to achieve something they wanted to achieve. How could that ever be anything else...? I'm truly confused here.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

...

So, let me get this straight. You want me to give you demonstrations of Fail Forward...in the contexts where that technique appears...

But you demand that it ONLY be examples from campaigns specifically using D&D?

Are you serious?

Oh look, that goalpost wizzed past again. Not sure if its a US goalpost or a UK one though.


I am pretty sure they asked for you to supply ONE example from D&D, not only examples from D&D. The point being, if you can only give examples from games that are not D&D, then then there is nothing to indicate it applies in D&D. Or I am allowed to Castle in Checkers?