Pathfinder 1E Rate Paizo as a Company!

[Wicht]

I do find it interesting how many people think a company's image is important though. I'd suspect most gamers aren't even aware of a company's practices or "image" and buy product they like based on their actual, honest enjoyment of the product, not whether they think the company making it is good or bad. Is this a minority opinion here?

I suspect many of us form our opinion of a company partially based upon the porduct that company produces.

 

[justinsluder]

6!!! Paizo FTW!!!

WotC = Fail

 

[ThirdWizard]

I keep seeing people commenting on these sorts of polls by stating that they don't matter because the number of people that posts in them is too small or because there are more people not on the internet then on it. Which shows a basic ignorance/misunderstanding of polls.

Ummm... no. Internet polls are in no way, shape, or form, statically sound for this kind of thing. I completely understand the way random population sampling can create an accurate picture of a larger group. But, saying that self-selecting Internet polls of hardcore audiences have any relation to the wider RPG community, even the purchasing community, is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

Paizo

I voted 6 because:
1. Their customer service is much better than WOTC's though it could use
improvement.

2. Their products are well written and thought out;

3. Dragon and Dungeon were fantastic.

4. They recognized the trainwreck that 4e is; that it is such a poor game in
every sense of the word and combined with the horrible conditions of
the GSL, they stood on their own and refused to knuckle under to
WOTC.

5. Pathfinder Society: organized play won't die with the demise of LG.

6. I like Enworld, won't go anywhere else for my primary RPG messageboard,
but the draconian censorship rules sometimes makes Enworld a little
disappointing. Paizo's messageboards seem freer, less moderated,
certainly more free spirited to be engage in conversation in a less
restricted way than here.

 

[Wicht]

Ummm... no. Internet polls are in no way, shape, or form, statically sound for this kind of thing. I completely understand the way random population sampling can create an accurate picture of a larger group. But, saying that self-selecting Internet polls of hardcore audiences have any relation to the wider RPG community, even the purchasing community, is complete and utter nonsense.

Are you suggesting that the members of ENWorld are not a part of the wider RPG community? If they are a part then they have some relationship.

Nevertheless, I was not trying to say that an internet poll was as valid as a sound poll of randomnly sampled people. It goes without saying that the members of an internet community very likely have some differences in makeup from the larger population. I think it would be a mistake however to assume that the members of ENWorld have no relationship to the buying community at large, especially those members of the community who are more likely to buy multiple items.

Furthermore, the only way by which one could know how closely or distantly the members of ENWorld resembled the gaming population at large would be to take a randomnly sampled survey from the larger group and then compare the results to the smaller group. It is just as erronous to assume the smaller community is an aberation as it is to assume that it is typical.

 

[Caliber]

Are you suggesting that the members of ENWorld are not a part of the wider RPG community? If they are a part then they have some relationship.

Nevertheless, I was not trying to say that an internet poll was as valid as a sound poll of randomnly sampled people. It goes without saying that the members of an internet community very likely have some differences in makeup from the larger population. I think it would be a mistake however to assume that the members of ENWorld have no relationship to the buying community at large, especially those members of the community who are more likely to buy multiple items.

Furthermore, the only way by which one could know how closely or distantly the members of ENWorld resembled the gaming population at large would be to take a randomnly sampled survey from the larger group and then compare the results to the smaller group. It is just as erronous to assume the smaller community is an aberation as it is to assume that it is typical.

Wicht, what you're missing here is not only are you assuming that ENWorld is representative of the game buying public as a whole, but you're assuming that those who are taking this poll are. This poll is going to be answered by people who have a strong feelings, mostly, which is why I'd suspect 2s to outnumber 3s up top. Is ENWorld representative of the gaming population? Maybe. I could buy that, in a vague fuzzy sort of way. Are the very small number of people willing to answer this poll representative of the gaming population? That seems like a very hard claim to try and prove.

Random samplings work because they're random, which this poll completely is not.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

I keep seeing people commenting on these sorts of polls by stating that they don't matter because the number of people that posts in them is too small or because there are more people not on the internet then on it. Which shows a basic ignorance/misunderstanding of polls.

The size of the sample is less important then the way in which the sample mirrors the larger population. The percentage of gamers who post on ENWorld is irrelevant compared to the question of whether the gamers who post on ENWorld have the same overall buying habits as nonposters. I would guess the answer is no, but I would also guess that ENWorld Posters are representative of the more active buyers in the gaming community.

When I look at the two polls regarding the two companies, the first thing I notice is that both have a nice curve, which is a good thing in polls of this sort. The second thing I notice is that the #2 in the Paizo poll is slightly off the curve and makes me think if we increased the sample size, it would probably level off to being smaller than the 3.

Overall, if I was Piazo, I would be pleased with the Poll results, internet or no. And if I was WotC, I would be a little worried.

It doesn't matter how big your sample size is if your selection method is flawed. If you are looking to extrapolate data to a population, the only population you could justify examining is the portion of gamers who choose to visit ENWorld and respond to poll topics about how much they appreciate Paizo or WotC as a company. Which is a population pretty much the same size as the number who have responded to the polls.

One accurate statement you did make was that Paizo would be pleased with these results. I totally agree; it seems that in recent months Paizo's entire strategy has been to follow the winds of Internet opinion.

 

[Wicht]

Wicht, what you're missing here is not only are you assuming that ENWorld is representative of the game buying public as a whole, but you're assuming that those who are taking this poll are. This poll is going to be answered by people who have a strong feelings, mostly, which is why I'd suspect 2s to outnumber 3s up top. Is ENWorld representative of the gaming population? Maybe. I could buy that, in a vague fuzzy sort of way. Are the very small number of people willing to answer this poll representative of the gaming population? That seems like a very hard claim to try and prove.

Random samplings work because they're random, which this poll completely is not.

Actually I don't think I made either assumption. What I have assumed is that those taking the poll are representative of themselves. Nothing more nor less. Nor would I care to make the effort to prove or disprove whether the sample is representative as I lack both the time and resources.

What I have tried to say is that it is erroneous to discount an internet poll by claiming that sample in the poll is not representative of a larger population. Such a claim begs the question and is as wrong as claiming that it does faithfully represent the larger population

But I might go a bit further and disagree that this poll and the other are being answered solely by people who have strong feelings. If that was the case then we should see a different curve with the high end at both ends of the polls and the dip in the middle. Instead we are seeing a more centrist curve. One cannot say only fanatics are voting when demonstrably this is not true.

 

[Wicht]

One accurate statement you did make was that Paizo would be pleased with these results. I totally agree; it seems that in recent months Paizo's entire strategy has been to follow the winds of Internet opinion.

If that is there entire strategy then it seems to be doing pretty well by them.

But I don't personally think that's their entire strategy. I get the feeling they are actually trying to follow the course that they personally consider makes for the best gaming experience, having been told by many of us that we would follow them, regardless of which edition they went with.

 

[Fifth Element]

What I have tried to say is that it is erroneous to discount an internet poll by claiming that sample in the poll is not representative of a larger population. Such a claim begs the question and is as wrong as claiming that it does faithfully represent the larger population.

That's valid, I think.

But, the point here is that you cannot make positive assertions using such polls as evidence. Because that assumes the polls are representative, of which there is no evidence. So when someone says something like "hardcore gamers are sticking with 3.5, look at the poll results", that's just as erroneous as what you're talking about.