OGL Read the actual OGL document and take the survey when it comes out

GreyLord

Legend
I said this in another thread, but I wanted to emphasis this. The world is not ending yet. The OGL is not set in stone at this time. YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE in what it says. It could be everything is up in the air.

They are going to have a survey. Items which you feel are important, highlight on the survey.

I think they are trying to allow those who have previously published systems (I think, so this is just an opinion here) to still be able to publish things for those systems such as adventures and things like that), so the actual system remains publishable.

However, new items such as what may go onto VTTs and other areas, or people trying to make new games or stuff using the new SRD that will come out eventually, and other things like that (with the obvious exceptions that they listed) will not be able to be published. They want to be able to control material in that way.
It's a fine line to walk where they want to allow freedom to use it in a more traditional manner, but also have control over the new D&D material going forward. They don't want someone using the old OGL in order to access the new material, but still allow that material to be used.

HOWEVER, if you don't like the wording, TELL THEM in the survey. If everyone tells them they need to reword it, or even more strongly tells them that they dislike it...we can then see how they respond.

The only way to see is to actually take the survey and tell them though.

As they say, if you want to have a voice heard, if you want your choice to make a difference, vote.

If you want to make changes, take the survey and tell them. You may feel that you are just one, but if everyone says the same thing, if everyone is on the same page on what they want changed, it sends a strong vote on that matter.

So, take the survey. Make your voice heard on the matter.

(@Steel_Wind said it best in another thread (and him reposting it here would probably also be good). Their goal is not to stop 3e and 3.5 stuff that were published, but to prevent a system based on 1D&D and to protect DnDBeyond (at least in My opinion). You don't like what is in the OGL then take the SURVEY! Read the OGL when they have it up to read, and make sure to make your voices heard. If everyone says something that says the same thing, and THEN it is ignored or looks like it will be ignored, then I'd say make accusations. Until then, see what is in it and see if you can make a difference. Organize and talk about that, because if something in it is important, than that's what should be focused on in the survey responses.

As I said above, when it comes out, take the survey.
 

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Greggy C

Adventurer
I don't think you understand.

Everyone figures they can build a clone of 5e in about 6 months
e.g. literally an exact clone, just without the proprietary IP:
example:

The creator world has moved on, one D&D is dead, long live the hundred D&D.
 


Dausuul

Legend
I absolutely agree with taking the survey.

But do read the document very carefully first (and maybe come on here to discuss it, in case someone else notices something you missed -- I certainly will). If what you care about is that OGL 1.0a remains authorized, then look for those exact words. "Anything you've already published under OGL 1.0a will be unaffected" is not the same thing... but they would really, really like us to think it is.
 

Posting these from the main thread because they seem very relevant to the discussion. Credit to MockingBird for bringing this to our attention.


an excerpt from the video.

20230118_151515.png
 



Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
Click "Very dissatisfied" on everything and don't bother typing anything.

Repeat until they give up.

This would be very easy for them/their data analysis software to classify as "junk" data, and separate from the rest of the results.

You'll get responses like that even on surveys where the subject matter isn't as emotionally charged as this one is for this audience. That's why, on some forms, you'll get the same question asked different ways, where for one phrasing it makes sense to respond with a low rank, and the other with a high rank. A consistent and honest respondent wouldn't answer the same to both of those. That way you can filter out the people who aren't responding in a valuable way.
 

Remathilis

Legend
If you want to make changes, take the survey and tell them. You may feel that you are just one, but if everyone says the same thing, if everyone is on the same page on what they want changed, it sends a strong vote on that matter.

So, take the survey. Make your voice heard on the matter.
Unfortunately, I think the time for rational discussion and feedback has passed. There are too many people now who want their pound of flesh from WotC. Some of them will be content with total surrender, and some won't be happy until WotC is Hasbro's liability, not its cash cow. The best option for WotC might be to accept they are now reviled like Activision or EA is, release less-odious OGL, and muscle through with brand recognition and nostalgia.

Its miserable at the top, but you eat well, I guess.
 

It'll be ... revealing when we see what questions the survey asks. The playtesting surveys I find are of limited usefulness because they grade everything on a simplistic 'good' to 'bad' scale without letting you explain whether 'bad' means a playtest element is overpowered, underpowered, badly worded, or unthematic. It's an incredibly blunt instrument. And the questions they don't ask are just as revealing. The whole massive recent retcon to goblinoids giving them fey ancestry with sleep immunity and floating proficiencies was never put up for survey, for example.

I suspect that elements of the new OGL are just non-negotiable, by decree of our WotC overlords. If the draft OGL comes out and there's dubious elements that don't have any related questions in the survey, it may be because they're trying to slip one past us.

One thing I will say - fill out the survey, but ALSO be vocal on here, on social media, wherever. The survey is a walled garden, and WotC can ignore, curate, or lie about the results however they like. We need to have opinions being heard out in the wild, outside WotCs control.
 

Haplo781

Legend
Unfortunately, I think the time for rational discussion and feedback has passed. There are too many people now who want their pound of flesh from WotC. Some of them will be content with total surrender, and some won't be happy until WotC is Hasbro's liability, not its cash cow. The best option for WotC might be to accept they are now reviled like Activision or EA is, release less-odious OGL, and muscle through with brand recognition and nostalgia.

Its miserable at the top, but you eat well, I guess.
Oh, I'll accept a few scenarios. But they all involve WotC backing the heck off from the idea of deauthorizing the 1.0a, and firing the person(s) responsible for the idea.
 

It'll be ... revealing when we see what questions the survey asks. The playtesting surveys I find are of limited usefulness because they grade everything on a simplistic 'good' to 'bad' scale without letting you explain whether 'bad' means a playtest element is overpowered, underpowered, badly worded, or unthematic. It's an incredibly blunt instrument. And the questions they don't ask are just as revealing. The whole massive recent retcon to goblinoids giving them fey ancestry with sleep immunity and floating proficiencies was never put up for survey, for example.

I suspect that elements of the new OGL are just non-negotiable, by decree of our WotC overlords. If the draft OGL comes out and there's dubious elements that don't have any related questions in the survey, it may be because they're trying to slip one past us.

One thing I will say - fill out the survey, but ALSO be vocal on here, on social media, wherever. The survey is a walled garden, and WotC can ignore, curate, or lie about the results however they like. We need to have opinions being heard out in the wild, outside WotCs control.

Yeah, that's the important part to emphasize. Go ahead and fill out the survey if you want, but don't let that be the only engagement you have on the matter. It's very questionable whether Wizards actually care about the survey, so let them hear your dissatisfaction in as many different places as possible.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Unfortunately, I think the time for rational discussion and feedback has passed. There are too many people now who want their pound of flesh from WotC. Some of them will be content with total surrender, and some won't be happy until WotC is Hasbro's liability, not its cash cow. The best option for WotC might be to accept they are now reviled like Activision or EA is, release less-odious OGL, and muscle through with brand recognition and nostalgia.

Its miserable at the top, but you eat well, I guess.
Just to be clear, "total surrender" is "move back to where everyone in the world including Wotc though was how it goes have been for the past 20 years".

Everything authorized, OGL irrevocable. It may take a 1.0b to do that, but no other changes.

And then, if they want to come out with a new version of OGL, go for it. Every 3PP and OGL game is protected,a nd they have plenty of clout to bring people to their new OGL promising carrots like having it on their VTT and DnDBeyond.

Putting it as "total surrender" really is using emotional language to bias towards one side of this. Gamers aren't looking for a whit more than what has been the status quo for decades.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
It'll be ... revealing when we see what questions the survey asks. The playtesting surveys I find are of limited usefulness because they grade everything on a simplistic 'good' to 'bad' scale without letting you explain whether 'bad' means a playtest element is overpowered, underpowered, badly worded, or unthematic. It's an incredibly blunt instrument. And the questions they don't ask are just as revealing. The whole massive recent retcon to goblinoids giving them fey ancestry with sleep immunity and floating proficiencies was never put up for survey, for example.

I suspect that elements of the new OGL are just non-negotiable, by decree of our WotC overlords. If the draft OGL comes out and there's dubious elements that don't have any related questions in the survey, it may be because they're trying to slip one past us.

One thing I will say - fill out the survey, but ALSO be vocal on here, on social media, wherever. The survey is a walled garden, and WotC can ignore, curate, or lie about the results however they like. We need to have opinions being heard out in the wild, outside WotCs control.
I am in complete agreement with you. If the questions of the survey don't address the real issues like OGL 1.0 & 1.0a staying in full force, no ability to change an existing version, and irrevocability, then we know this is more for show. And at that point the more they can say "80% of gamers approve of the new OGL" because they are only looking at numerical scores that they asked about that takes the wind out of any change. There are already a lot of gamers who only play D&D, no other OGL games, and don't use 3PP books, who are complaining this whole thing is making a mountain out of a molehill -- if they sway enough to not caring deeply they can move forward.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I don't think you understand.

Everyone figures they can build a clone of 5e in about 6 months
e.g. literally an exact clone, just without the proprietary IP:
example:

The creator world has moved on, one D&D is dead, long live the hundred D&D.
Took us a couple of years, but we did it. It's doable.

 



tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
MCDM has posted two updates on their new ttrpg (day1, day2), ORC & Kobold Press are reportedly doing a humble bumble to aid with the legal costs involved on the 21st, Kobold press will start putting out project black flag was announced from a twitter account created december 2021 & is expecting to startplaytest stuff next month. Wotc has done "considerably more than nil" damage to their reputation... An OGL survey soon is going to have almost zero credibility worth swaying any of that with reports starting to reveal that wotc only uses the surveys to channel discussion away from public areas like reddit & into a black hole the designers can't even look at
 


GreyLord

Legend
No, it's standalone. Yes, we used the OGL. We are now investigating the legality of de-OGL-ifying it.

I would imagine that means you will be changing paragraphs 3 and 4 on your compatibility license in the future should you be successful.

Paragraphs 15 - 17 are interesting in light of some of the current comments regarding WotC.

Will this go under ORC if successful?

In any case, I wish you good luck and hope for your success.
 

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