ready action vs silent still spell

[Zulkir of Dartmouth]

And just to add, what would you base the DC of the spot check which in the PHB on pg 74 states...."The Spot skell is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, Spot is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen."

 

[hong]

The archer doesn't have to ID the spell, he just has to notice that the wizard is doing something. That's a less specific task than for the Spellcraft check.

And just because Spot is _often_ opposed by a Hide check, doesn't mean it's the _only_ way to use it.

 

[DnD Rule Machine]

Ok Wait a second here.

An archer with a readied action to loose an arrow when the wizard begins casting is allowed to attack if, and only if the wizard visibly casts a spell. The archer is fully entitled to the attack, provided he knows the spell is being cast.

This very same wizard, with a spell augmented by the Still Spell and Silent Spell, would not visibly cast the spell. Therefore there is nothing to see. There is no physical or visible difference between a slient/still spell being cast, and the wizard readying his action, unless the spell produces physical or material effects, ie color spray.

The archer, with his eyes set on the wizard sees nothing but a wizard standing still. Who is to say that this wizard hasn't readied his action to that of the archer.

Now I may be new to this board, but I am not new to DnD, and I don't remember 'zenning out' being a term thrown around in any of the official books or errata from Wizards of the Coast. You know WOTC, the guys who MAKE THE RULES.

 

[Zulkir of Dartmouth]

What would give the wizard away to the archer?

And what would be the DC of the Spot? And how did you calculate it?

I am not trying to be an ass here, but I know that this will be most likely be up to the DM. But I like to base my rules on existing rules and I also like to be able to explain this to others. So if you could do this for me I would appreciate it.

 

[hong]

This very same wizard, with a spell augmented by the Still Spell and Silent Spell, would not visibly cast the spell. Therefore there is nothing to see.

Why?

Now I may be new to this board, but I am not new to DnD, and I don't remember 'zenning out' being a term thrown around in any of the official books or errata from Wizards of the Coast. You know WOTC, the guys who MAKE THE RULES.

Point out anything in the official books that says a stilled, silenced spell must necessarily have no visible casting process.

When casting a stilled, silenced spell, you're still vulnerable to AoOs, and an interrupted casting still requires a Concentration check to maintain the spell. This indicates that the casting process still requires the wizard to take his mind off his surroundings, to focus on the spell. Since the wizard is taking his mind of his surroundings (not dodging enemies as well, not moving as fast as normally, etc), it should be visible to someone who is paying attention.

Clear?

 

[hong]

And what would be the DC of the Spot? And how did you calculate it?

Ineffable omnipotence.

 

[nameless]

While there is no rule stating that silent, still spell ceases to fulfill ready actions, the character needs to percieve the thing he is readying an action against. A poor, but perhaps pertinent analogy is with the Mirror Image spell. If I were to ready an action against a Mirror Imaged spellcaster, I can't simply say that I want to fire at the "real one" and somehow hit him instead of a mirror image.

Ready actions don't magically communicate special knowledge. If the archer had some pertinent ability to recognize spells without visual or auditory clues, then I would allow him the ready action. It may be a high spot, sense motive, spellcraft, or some other skill, or it might be some kind of ESP. The most straightforward (and rules-supported) of these would be a Spot check, modified for distance, and with a -20 circumstance penalty for doing an 'impossible' task (spotting a spell with no somatic components).

That's how I'd rule it anyways. I also don't allow AoO's against opponents that can't be perceived.

-nameless

 

[Zulkir of Dartmouth]

Why?

Point out anything in the official books that says a stilled, silenced spell must necessarily have no visible casting process.

PHB p 85 Still Spell: A still spell can be cast with no somatic components.
PHB p 151 Somatic Component: A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand or some other part of the body.
Therefore if there is no Somatic Component there is no measured and precise movement of the body.

PHB p 85 Silent Spell: You can cast spells silently. ( no verbal component)
PHB p 151 Verbal Components: A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
Therefore if there is no Verbal Component there is no sound coming from the caster.

Therefore you have a person standing still and not saying anything. That does not meet many peoples definition of casting a spell.
And if you want to bring in AoO, your archer does not threaten any adjacent block.


If the archer were to reword his readied action to, "I wait until the wizard blinks or breathes." Then he would be able to make his attack action. Because to the archer that is all he is doing.

 

[DnD Rule Machine]

Here's a hypothetical pickle.

Wizard A has readied his action in order to counterspell and oppose wizard B.

Wizard A has 35 Hit Points.

Wizard B has Power Word: Kill under the effect of the Silent Spell feat.

On Wizard B's turn, he casts Power Word: Kill on Wizard A. Since the Spell is a silent spell, there is no verbal compnent. Power Word: Kill has only a verbal component. Therefore no sound is uttered, no words spoken.

Power Word: Kill would kill Wizard A, no save is allowed. Wizard A would have readied his action, but would have been killed before taking the action. Why? Because In order to counterspell, a successful Spellcraft Check must be made at DC 15+ Spell Level and the verbal or somatic components must be seen or heard. Silent Spells have no verbal components. Nothing to Hear, no Check can be made. No counterspell. One Dead Wizard.

Now an archer is not even a spellcasting class. How could you explain being able to 'see' or 'hear' a spell as such being cast? And how would the archer fare against this same spell? No save. No sound. No action for Mr Dead Archer.

 

[hong]

That's how I'd rule it anyways. I also don't allow AoO's against opponents that can't be perceived.

Then you haven't understood the rationale behind AoOs. An AoO isn't an additional attack that someone takes against you (although it looks that way). It represents your reduced ability to defend against _regular_ attacks that are taken against you as part of the round. Thus it doesn't matter if you're invisible, hidden, or in darkness. If someone knows you're there and is taking wild swings against you, they get an AoO if you try doing something silly (like casting a spell). Normal miss chances still apply, but being concealed does nothing to negate the AoO itself.