D&D 5E Realigning a magic item

[Bigsta]

Let your players choose how they want to proceed by playing the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure time game with them.

When they check back in a few days, have a second "good" version of the sword laying alongside the original bad version.

Have the mages inform the PCs that less than an hour after they left future versions of themselves appeared and left the good sword for them to use while they go out questing for the materials needed to engooden the bad sword.

This gives your players a choice. If they want extra side quests they can assume their future selves are from before their fight with Tiamat, and they can begin learning what they need for the goodness spell (and how to travel through time).

If they don't want to side quest, they can decide the sword was delivered by their future selves after fighting Tiamat, and they can simply proceed with the main storyline.

 

[merwins]

Have the mages inform the PCs that less than an hour after they left future versions of themselves appeared and left the good sword for them to use while they go out questing for the materials needed to engooden the bad sword.

Man, that's messed up. PartyNOW takes the good sword to go and get the ingredients to make the bad sword good... but they don't take the bad sword?

So when they come back, they are PartyFUTURE. They bring back the good sword, of course, but they left the bad sword there. If they come back and drop off the good sword next to the bad sword, what did they use the ingredients for? I mean, PartyNOW sees both swords after PartyFUTURE leaves.

And PartyFUTURE does leave, since they're not there when PartyNOW sees both swords. PartyFuture (which was PartyNOW) ALREADY HAD the good sword. Why would they give it up?

Maybe I need to watch Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure again. LOL.

 

[robus]

Btw, players just found out about the upcoming duel within the sword and there was palpable excitement. I'll give an update on how it goes. My hope is that the PC will be defeated the first time she's attempts it, but it won't be impossible for her to win.

 

[merwins]

Btw, players just found out about the upcoming duel within the sword and there was palpable excitement. I'll give an update on how it goes. My hope is that the PC will be defeated the first time she's attempts it, but it won't be impossible for her to win.

For the record, your solution was pretty cool. I'd leave the player (character) with a scar if they fail. A flavorful one, not necessarily a game mechanical scar. Makes for great storytelling.

 

[Scott Graves]

Just got this situation happening. The Lawful Good Paladin of Tyr kicked the bad guys butt up one side leaving him with 1 HP, bad guy runs like a pussy since he is supposed to appear later on in the game. Splattergoo (dumbest name EVER in a module of stupid names) heals him and Paladin catches up beating him even more. Kitty Kat Barbarian delivers finishing blow (by 1 point... grrrr) and Paladin decides to take sword. So I roll the random Charisma and get a whopping 12... So Paladin makes Charisma save with points to spare. He decides that the sword MUST be converted to the service of Tyr...

So I come here and look around. I like the conversion by conversation idea. I look forward to the player explaining why LG is a good goal for the sword. Here is my idea. Each week of Downtime spent "evangelizing" we do two rolls. #1) a Charisma Save to keep from letting the sword win. #2) a Preaching check (XGtE) and he has to get at least one favor. #3) When he gets a certain number of "favors" the sword moves one slot closer to him. NE to N, N to LN and lastly LN to LG seems the logical path. When it goes to LN the damage becomes Thunder and when it goes to LG it becomes Force.

In a way turning it to a Mace of Smiting with a blade perhaps. Also since we are paying attention to the Treasure Checkpoint Rules he will need to dedicate all his points toward it until say 24 or so points is reached.

What do you think?

I substituted a less “loaded” term for your process there. We’re all here to have fun, let’s not intentionally or inadvertently step on too many toes while doing so.

 

[LordEntrails]

Just got this situation happening.
...
What do you think?

Rise! Rise from the dead!

Nice necromancy.

Anyway, I don't like the idea of forcing anything sentient to change it's alignment. I don't care that it is a magic weapon, if you believe souls have free will and that is what makes them a soul, and a soul is what makes an item sentient, then no one can force a soul to change alignment.

So, why might the sword/soul want to change alignment? If you can come up with a way using roleplay to have that happen, then sure. But that seems to mean it would become a major quest, or even the focus of the campaign to do such a thing.

 

[merwins]

Anyway, I don't like the idea of forcing anything sentient to change it's alignment. I don't care that it is a magic weapon, if you believe souls have free will and that is what makes them a soul, and a soul is what makes an item sentient, then no one can force a soul to change alignment.

I find this an interesting perspective to explore.

Does this mean there is no opportunity for true redemption or corruption?

You can only change a sentient thing's behavior, but not its nature?

Obviously, when you're discussing the idea of "souls" this may extend beyond magic items to characters as well.

I'm not particularly interested in your real-life attitudes, just the in-game ones. With that focus, I would point out that with such a black-and-white perspective of the intrinsic nature of reality, a lot of fantasy stories have the potential to break down, especially as we (as readers or viewers) identify with characters in a story.

I haven't thought about it deeply enough, but I'm not sure you can even support "shades of gray" beyond external behavior. In other words, every good act by an evil character would have an evil purpose, and vice-versa.

Of course, if I view a sentient magic item as a tool, perhaps I could teach it to act less evil, whether or not it's true nature remains evil. I.e., over time, I would expect a lawful good paladin to be able to "teach" a soul-sucking sword to not eat its victims -- just kill them. But it would still WANT to, and be driven to. It stays evil, but it tries to behave "good." The paladin is a good influence and role model.

EDIT:
My bad... missed the "force" part.
I guess this assumes that paladin or cleric prayers are a method of "force."
We could all throw up our hands and say that since alignment is an in-game construct, divine influence can manipulate it. But it's more fun to think about.

 

[Scott Graves]

I see it as a matter of redemption for the sword, not force. It's not Tyr making the sword change alignments but the efforts of the Paladin to persuade the sword that it's Neutral Evil ways were not effective. After all, the former Evil master of the blade got his gleuteous maximus handed to him by a servant of Tyr.

So the Paladin is taking that approach with the alignment change. That and pointing out that if the blade continues in it's evil ways it won't ever get to perform it's primary reason for existing, cutting things up. It won't even get to be a letter opener unless it considers changing its selfish ways. So it either listens to reason or it spends eternity on a shelf in the Waterdeep temple of Tyr. A persuasive argument I must say.

 

[Scott Graves]

I see alignment as a definition not a straitjacket. A Lawful Good character is that alignment because of what he/she does, not because they were born into that alignment. Same with a Lawful Evil character. If a Lawful Evil character stops being selfish and occasionally does things that benefit the most people instead of themselves I would rule they are becoming Lawful Neutral. If a Lawful Good character starts acting selfish then they would become Lawful Neutral.

The Paladin has already converted the Ranger to the worship of Tyr and his alignment is slowly shifting toward Lawful Good because of the fine example the Paladin sets. We are playing Adventure League so we wound up with three from the other group joining ours last night, one of them is a much lower level bard who got into hot water with a mass of lizardfolk. He charged in, healed her and set about beating upon a dozen enemies so she could get clear. These things are affecting the other characters in a positive way so some are trying to emulate his behavior because of his constant displays of selflessness and faith in Tyr's will to guide him and protect him.

The application of the same principle is how he plans to change the sword into a Lawful Good blade.

 

[LordEntrails]

Yes, "force" is important to me. Yes this means their are some spells of magic items that break this rule, and I don't generally use them in my games, but when I do, I consider it a magical compulsion.

The impacts of such are not black and white, and at the table I generally don't go that deep. After all, rule of fun. But, as said, it's interesting to discuss.