D&D 5E Recent Errata clarifications


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Faolyn

(she/her)
I've discussed this in other threads, but it's primarily due to there not just being Planes of Existence for every alignment, but also for every in-between alignment. Like, I'm fine with the Abyss and Nine Hells, but Hades, Gehenna, and Pandemonium are really unnecessary. The same applies to most of the Upper Planes as well. Also, it doesn't make sense that there are two separate Planes of War (Ysgard and Acheron), and believe that the setting would be better if they were just combined into one Plane of War (like Shavarath from Eberron did), and, in general, there's just too much grid-filling in the cosmology and not enough consideration of how to run adventures in the planes.
Funnily, I find the in-between planes far more interesting than the straight-alignment planes. I'd rather have Gehenna, Pandemonium, and Acheron (Hades is NE) than either the Hells or the Abyss.
 

JEB

Legend
How do you differentiate between inspiring players and dictating to players?
Include more blatant indicators that any description of a PC race, monster, etc. is a default, and can be changed. And demonstrate this with ideas for alternatives and variations as much as possible, right alongside whatever default is provided.

Because once they "stop giving their money to WotC", there will be two other new players replacing them that will.

Either that, or they'll just play their previous D&D editions and still occasionally give their money to WotC by buying older stuff off of DMs Guild. And WotC doesn't really care, they just want people to play anything-- it doesn't matter to them what people play.
I'm pretty confident that Wizards would much rather have veteran fans keep buying $50 books every few months, than the rare $10ish PDF, or nothing at all. Hence bits like the Easter eggs in Witchlight. If they sense that a significant number of veteran fans are abandoning ship, I think that trend would matter very much to them...
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Tolkien was never satisfied with his own depiction of Orcs. He wrote multiple lengthy essays on the metaphysics of Orcs, and it always bothered him. As it ought to.
And also, like… It’s entirely possible to recognize and be critical of problematic elements of something while still enjoying the thing. I do that with… Well, basically everything I like?
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I'm pretty confident that Wizards would much rather have veteran fans keep buying $50 books every few months, than the rare $10ish PDF, or nothing at all. Hence bits like the Easter eggs in Witchlight. If they sense that a significant number of veteran fans are abandoning ship, I think that trend would matter very much to them...
Only if it loses them more money than it makes them from newer players.
 



Minigiant

Legend
I've discussed this in other threads, but it's primarily due to there not just being Planes of Existence for every alignment, but also for every in-between alignment. Like, I'm fine with the Abyss and Nine Hells, but Hades, Gehenna, and Pandemonium are really unnecessary. The same applies to most of the Upper Planes as well. Also, it doesn't make sense that there are two separate Planes of War (Ysgard and Acheron), and believe that the setting would be better if they were just combined into one Plane of War (like Shavarath from Eberron did), and, in general, there's just too much grid-filling in the cosmology and not enough consideration of how to run adventures in the planes.

Funnily, I find the in-between planes far more interesting than the straight-alignment planes. I'd rather have Gehenna, Pandemonium, and Acheron (Hades is NE) than either the Hells or the Abyss.

I don't think the problem was the grid filling as much as the idea of using the whole grid/wheel. It's too much and people struggle to use all of it. And there's little guidance to cut up the bits an use what you want. "Pick a good plane, an evil plane, and 2 other planes and poof yousgotta setting"

I feel have the problem we see on foes and planes is that they seemed to all be created to have simple ways to make more and more simple enemies. And the more simple enemies and ares you use, the less space you have to make sense of them. and the, for lack of a better world... stupider everything becomes. A million simple solutions and you get a complex mess.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Good luck to the Wizards designers who make that pitch to Wizards execs and Hasbro; they'd better have some strong survey and sales data on their side.
I don’t think we’d be seeing these changes if they didn’t. Until recently, “don’t rock the boat” seems to have been the motto WotC was operating under for 5e. Now, suddenly we’re getting errata leading up to revised core books in ‘24? Yeah, I’d say they must have some pretty compelling data to have gotten these changes greenlit.
 

JEB

Legend
I don’t think we’d be seeing these changes if they didn’t. Until recently, “don’t rock the boat” seems to have been the motto WotC was operating under for 5e. Now, suddenly we’re getting errata leading up to revised core books in ‘24? Yeah, I’d say they must have some pretty compelling data to have gotten these changes greenlit.
These changes are far from indicating that they've given up on appealing to veteran fans. We wouldn't be seeing damage control like these clarifications, or the restoration of monster statblock alignment in Fizban's, if they had; they'd just double down, certain that they could leave the old folks behind. They also wouldn't still be trying to tap into nostalgia through bits like the NPC cameos in Witchlight, or the Spelljammer races in the latest UA.

I think it's more likely they're attempting to see how far they can push changes intended to widen the audience without alienating their existing one. That's certainly the safest move for a big company with a successful product to make.
 

Not doing that in the least. Unless your name is Ray, I'm not making a comment directed towards you or what you like at all.

In fact, I take offense and you claiming this is what I'm doing. I've REPEATEDLY over the top said people are free to do what they like, and I've been REPEATEDLY over the top told that I'm wrong, and many other things that dont bare repeating.

So nope.

His statement is..humorous to say the least, and I'll make note of it, because what they (Wizards) are saying, and doing, and NOT saying, do not line up.

Agreed, it's like their contradictory statements on canon or the fact that they officially stated they aren't merging the MtG and D&D multiverses, but Strixhaven and the AFR adventure with Ravnican villian or Theros, Tarkir, and Ravnica getting mentions along with regular D&D settings like Dragonlance, FR, and Council of Wyrms and Eberron in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons say otherwise.

There is no decisive vision at WotC, they are trying to move in every direction at once, and as much as it messes stuff up, they get away with it, because they have an insane level of market dominance that is almost unchallegnable.
 


Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
These changes are far from indicating that they've given up on appealing to veteran fans. We wouldn't be seeing damage control like these clarifications, or the restoration of monster statblock alignment in Fizban's, if they had; they'd just double down, certain that they could leave the old folks behind. They also wouldn't still be trying to tap into nostalgia through bits like the NPC cameos in Witchlight, or the Spelljammer races in the latest UA.

I think it's more likely they're attempting to see how far they can push changes intended to widen the audience without alienating their existing one. That's certainly the safest move for a big company with a successful product to make.
I don’t think they’ve given up on the veteran fans at all. They just know that there are a LOT more new fans, and also that these changes are seen as positive to a not-insignificant portion of the veteran fans too.
 

JEB

Legend
The clarification was merely because people on EN, Twitter, etc failed to read the Errata and instead just talked to each other about the errata. The claimed damage by "removing evil Beholders" and other lies needed clarification, not because WotC failed, but because social media failed.
They didn't feel the need to issue immediate clarifications on the new canon policy, the removal of alignment from sourcebooks, or the shift to floating ASI, and all of those were quickly interpreted in a variety of ways that some would deem incorrect or hyperbolic.

The key difference, I suspect, is that this change seemed to have (and is still having) a louder negative reaction from a larger number of fans. So it seemed like more of a threat to the bottom line than the other changes, which got more mixed responses.
 

Scribe

Hero
The key difference, I suspect, is that this change seemed to have (and is still having) a louder negative reaction from a larger number of fans. So it seemed like more of a threat to the bottom line than the other changes, which got more mixed responses.
Is it? I literally look nowhere but here.
 


Scribe

Hero
The change got some significant pushback on r/dndnext, for example. There's now some counter-pushback after the clarification, but there are still a decent number of grumpy folks.
I mean people are going to have to accept it, the alternative is no longer worth it to Wizards.
 

JEB

Legend
They just know that there are a LOT more new fans,
More new fans? Yep, 55% are under 30, definitely a majority. But 45% are 30 and above, and the older you get in that cohort, the more likely they are to at least be veterans of 4E and 3E. Even if you only count the 27% that are 35 and over (which are more likely to be vets), that's still one-fourth of the fanbase that grew up with a certain version of the game and are more likely to be uncomfortable with things that seem like fundamental changes.

I doubt most companies are ready to commit to changes that could potentially annoy 27% of their userbase - but make small, cautious attempts to test the waters? Absolutely.

and also that these changes are seen as positive to a not-insignificant portion of the veteran fans too.
I don't think they know that for sure until they try them out. And it's already failed at least once - monster alignment disappeared by Van Richten's and came back in full by Fizban's. IIRC they even admitted they're in kind of an experimentation phase...
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
Funnily, I find the in-between planes far more interesting than the straight-alignment planes. I'd rather have Gehenna, Pandemonium, and Acheron (Hades is NE) than either the Hells or the Abyss.
Don't get me wrong, I find a lot of the in-between planes interesting (I like Acheron and Carceri), but Pandemonium could easily just be a few layers of the Abyss, and if Gehenna is the home of the Neutral Evil Fiends (Yugoloths), it should be the Neutral Evil Plane, instead of Hades (which isn't even the Underworld/Afterlife of the Great Wheel, it's just a place that Larva form and Night Hags have soul-trades). (And, like I said before, there's not really a reason to have two separate Planes of War, so merging Acheron and Ysgard and having the specific conflicts on them be separated by layers on the same plane, like how the Nine Hells has 9 Layers, etc.)

And don't get me started on the Upper Planes or Limbo.

(Sorry for the rant.)
 

When WotC does their surveys and a question about favorite races is included I always choose Dwarf and Halfling because they are criminally under utilized in many of the supplements going back to 1e. A million subraces of elf but what I'd love is more interesting dwarfs and halfling. I know it can be done!

I'd love if 5.5e or 6e did like Level Up has done (plug for the books!) as I really like it. I backed it sight unseen and I think species, culture, background is a great way to build a PC and how I've tried to do it (poorly) as a DM so far. Being a human from here is different from a human from here and these are how we can simulate it for your PC. Plus, in Level Up many of the cultures are named right after the species indicating what the default is.

The Level Up book highlights what I find missing from so many 5e official supplements. We get new species after new species, but what I really want are loads of new cultures and backgrounds with mechanical fiddly-bobs that I can graft onto my home game. Doesn't matter to me if it's a generic supplement with generic cultures and backgrounds or a setting book with specific ones.

Too much of D&D seems to lean on the race itself to provide depth by rolling culture directly into the race description and I think that does D&D a disservice. I don't think Tasha's and other changes by WotC have done an effective job of moving away from that and instead have left what I considering a dissatisfying mix that's neither fish nor fowl.
dwarves and halfling end up not being used because they are sort of bland they need some more work to really get them to be popular.
 

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