D&D 3E/3.5 Refocus disappeared in 3.5?

[DanMcS]

It is legal, but you still only get the standard action, because that was what you were delaying. Once your original init goes by, you would be able to use the full action, as it's available to you at that time. Same would apply if you were restricted to only standard or partial actions for some other reason.

"Acting normally" within a non-surprise round gets a full action, not a standard action.

 

[KarinsDad]

They are certainly not meaningless. Do you never have new monsters show up? Once you throw out all the initiative counts (though you say you don't use them, your example proves you do), how can you place a new monster?

We use a "Start of Round" card. Most of the time, we flip right past it and ignore it. According to the DMG, new monsters are supposed to show up at the start of the round. So, knowing the actual counts is not really necessary.

It's unnecessary bookkeeping and a waste of time.

As DM, I also sometimes throw a new creature in within the initiative system. For example, if the PC Wizard Fireballs on his init, 2 rounds later just after his init, a new creature might enter the combat.

With regard to keeping track of actions when creatures move their initiatives, that's easy as well without keeping track of counts.

You put in an "Effect 1 Card", an "Effect 2 Card", etc. For example, if the Wizard casts Stinking Cloud and then in a later round, delays his action, you put an effect card in the stack at his current point in the initiative. It is up to the player playing the PC or the DM playing the NPC to keep track of the number of rounds that effect is valid.

But, there is absolutely no reason to use counts at all except for finding out the initial ordering.

This isn't true either, if you use the (first-half of) Delay as written. Since I choose an initiative count, then unless initiative counts still exist, I couldn't do that. It seems like you use the same houserule I do, though I maintain the record of the initiative counts in case a new creature appears.

Actually, he is correct. When you distill it down, all that really matters is the order. The counts are merely there as a tool to keep rule consistency. There is no reason at all to use the "first half of Delay as written" rule because you could always just Delay until the next count in which case you Delay until the next count. Effectively, what you are doing here is ignoring the "first half of Delay as written" because it is a pretty lame rule and going straight to the "second half of Delay as written".

 

[irdeggman]

Actually, he is correct. When you distill it down, all that really matters is the order. The counts are merely there as a tool to keep rule consistency. There is no reason at all to use the "first half of Delay as written" rule because you could always just Delay until the next count in which case you Delay until the next count. Effectively, what you are doing here is ignoring the "first half of Delay as written" because it is a pretty lame rule and going straight to the "second half of Delay as written".

Which is our "default"

When a PC states he is delaying - we "assume" that means delaying to the the next count and then follows the RAW but taking his action anytime after that he wants. We then just insert into the initiative order "when" they act.

 

[werk]

"Acting normally" within a non-surprise round gets a full action, not a standard action.

While I appreciate the criticism, maybe you could address the question I was attempting to answer so we all know the correct way to do it.

 

[KarinsDad]

No initiative counts? Wha? Do you mean not at all or not recorded after rolled?

Not recorded after rolled. There is no need. The order is identical regardless (unless you go into that stuff about calling out a count where an opponent already has that count, hence, you have to check Dex scores).

Btw, why do you keep calling it a houserule if the results are the same? That's like saying that a DM who subtracts to hit modifiers from an AC as opposed to adding them to the to hit is using a houserule. The results are identical, regardless of how you do the math.

 

[DanMcS]

While I appreciate the criticism, maybe you could address the question I was attempting to answer so we all know the correct way to do it.

I did, in post 24. If you delay from a surprise round into a regular round, you're essentially taking that moment that you might be able to act in the surprise round to take stock of the situation and get the jump on your opponents. You delay into the regular round, and then can take a full action.

 

[Nail]

To add to the chorus: My groups have always used sheets of paper with the PCs and monsters names on them. When initiative is rolled, we sort the stack of paper...and then forget about the actual number. There is no need to rememeber them, and the RAW does not require them once initiative is set.

 

[werk]

I did, in post 24. If you delay from a surprise round into a regular round, you're essentially taking that moment that you might be able to act in the surprise round to take stock of the situation and get the jump on your opponents. You delay into the regular round, and then can take a full action.

Sorry, I didn't see your one word post.

Do you have anything to support that decision from the rules? I couldn't find anything either way.

Edit: I ask because it leads to the question: why not delay during surprise and then take a full action at the top of the round everytime there is surprise? It would be a self imposed penalty to take the standard action during the surprise round, would it not?

 

[KarinsDad]

Edit: I ask because it leads to the question: why not delay during surprise and then take a full action at the top of the round everytime there is surprise? It would be a self imposed penalty to take the standard action during the surprise round, would it not?

If you have a high initiative number in the first place, this strategy would probably be ill advised since you get to get a standard action in the surprise round and a full action early in round one.

 

[DanMcS]

Edit: I ask because it leads to the question: why not delay during surprise and then take a full action at the top of the round everytime there is surprise? It would be a self imposed penalty to take the standard action during the surprise round, would it not?

In a surprise round, only people who can act roll initiative. This gives you some, but not all, of the information which would make it necessary to decide this.

The following assumes you can act in the surprise round, obviously:

If you roll a high initiative, you can take your surprise-round action and probably your action in the first full round will also beat some or most of the opposition. Then you would get 1.5 actions before those opponents. So that's an instance when you would take your surprise round to act instead of delay.

If you roll a low initiative total, you might choose to act in the surprise round, or delay until the first full round. You can't interrupt someone with a delayed action, and also:

Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there.

If you don't delay, you automatically get .5 of an action before any of your surprised opponents. This can be good for a rogue or wizard type who can get a shot off while they are flatfooted, a warrior can move to engage without fear of AoOs, or a spellcaster can cast a spell. For instance.

If you delay, then when the first full round starts, people who were surprised roll initiative. The round starts with the person who has rolled the highest initiative. If this happens to be an opponent, you've just given up your surprise advantage entirely because you can't interrupt him. You'll later get a full action, but it won't be before all your opponents can act.

If one of your teammates won initiative, and you go right after him, then you get 1 action before any of your enemies can act. Essentially, if you delay into the first round, you're gambling your .5 action while all opponents are flatfooted for the chance to get 1 full action while all opponents are flatfooted. The .5 is guaranteed, the 1 isn't, and you're about 50/50 to win, because your teammate with a high initiative bonus is probably about equal to the enemy with a high initiative bonus. So it's a crapshoot at that point.

Some people, especially spellcasters, won't see the gamble as worth it, because they weren't planning on moving and casting anyway, just on casting. Others, mainly warrior types, don't care much if their opponents are flatfooted or not, and will just take the surprise round to get into position, draw weapons, and so on.