D&D General Reminder: Spellfire can come out of any body part…

DarkCrisis

Legend
…according to the creator of The Forgotten Realms.

You see, I’ve started reading the old old FRs novel: Spellfire. Written by Ed Greenwood.

A fresh on the job 16 year waif of a girl goes on her first adventure and ends up being able to channel Spellfire (primal spell blasts by way of Dragonball Z)

Elminster tells this young lady that when she lets loose it will come out of her eyes and/or mouth and/or hands.

So she starts going all DBZ on the bad guys and as blasts are coming out of her mouth and hands, I kid you not, rips her shirt open and adds breast blasts to the barrage.

Dot dot dot.

This is a weird fricking story. And it’s the first of a trilogy.

Edit: I have been made aware he probably meant "Chest" not "Boobs". Also, 2nd half of the book is pretty good.
 
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Andvari

Explorer
Greenwood Novels = Young woman becomes a powerful spell caster.
Except Elminster who is male until a god turns him into a young woman who becomes a powerful spell caster.

Edit: Actually not true as some of the FR novels I'm thinking of weren't by him. Consider it my homebrew version of Ed Greenwood.
 



toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
Lol, yep. Been awhile since I cracked that open but there it is, in all its glory:

Shandril laughed. Her blazing fingers found the throat of her tunic and ripped it open. From her bared breast poured out spellfire as she backed down the tunnel. Rock cracked and burst into fragments.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
The more I read about the earliest creators of D&D and their attitudes well into the 2000s towards... literally any minority group...

The more I realize they'd have hated me for existing in their spaces and for all the kindness they might smear over that hatred in favor of the illusion that everyone is equal at their table it just makes me super uncomfortable.

Thank the universe for EN World and other spaces that actively push back against bigotry and do not tolerate it.
 

DarkCrisis

Legend
The more I read about the earliest creators of D&D and their attitudes well into the 2000s towards... literally any minority group...

The more I realize they'd have hated me for existing in their spaces and for all the kindness they might smear over that hatred in favor of the illusion that everyone is equal at their table it just makes me super uncomfortable.

Thank the universe for EN World and other spaces that actively push back against bigotry and do not tolerate it.

I wouldn’t go so far to call this something that is hateful. Not to say you are wrong about the “boomer attitude”.

It’s definitely juvenile and sexist but it’s also really really horribly written. Like amateur hour. And definitely trying to appeal to the core reader at the time… boys.

I mean, In this spellfire scene she obliterates like 100 cultists and a dracolich just by walking towards them and “I’m firing my laser!” And she’s been adventuring for like a week. (Man the xp she’s about to gain…)

While the boob beam thing is very stupid (the most juvenile and sexist so far) it’s a drop in the bucket to the rest of it and how badly written it is and I’m like half way in.
 
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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I'm on the record as not being a fan of this book, but I'll admit that I'd forgotten about that scene completely. In fact, what I most remember about it now is a friend of mine mentioning it, and my thinking that he had to be making it up...but no, there it was.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
I wouldn’t go so far to call this something that is hateful. Not to say you are wrong about the “boomer attitude”.

It’s definitely juvenile and sexist but it’s also really really horribly written. Like amateur hour. And definitely trying to appeal to the core reader at the time… boys.

I mean, In this spellfire scene she obliterates like 100 cultists and a dracolich just by walking towards them and “I’m firing my laser!” And she’s been adventuring for like a week. (Man the xp she’s about to gain…)

While the boob beam thing is very stupid (the most juvenile and sexist so far) it’s a drop in the bucket to the rest of it and how badly written it is and I’m like half way in.
"As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males."
Gary Gygax


"A number of the chaps with families are bound to bring them next year so that thay can enjoy the charms of Lake Geneva, a true tourist trap with plenty to amuse women and children not enthralled by the lure of gaming."
Gary Gygax


"20 years? Way to short a period. The fantasy and SF pulp zines in the 1940s were rife with scantily clad women. Frazetta and Boris became famous for such work.

Now that's not politically correct. Tough :D It still is fun, and it sells."

Gary Gygax


"Just so. The only limit I placed on female PCS was no Str above 18. In actual history female participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil. i am always amused when history programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc. They represent less than one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically. Frankly, not only did society generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable activities."
Gary Gygax


I can't stress enough that he said this stuff -here-. On ENWorld. Before it became against policy to say stuff like this.

Maybe he didn't walk around lamenting that women weren't all Gor for him or treated women as stray dogs to be kicked...

But this is the Gygax... The person chiefly credited with creating our hobby. Throwing out "Females" with the same sort of derogation as you might here on incel forums.

And it really feels like he'd misgender me in order to maintain his "Biological Determinism". And that -sucks-.
 

Argyle King

Legend
"As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males."
Gary Gygax


"A number of the chaps with families are bound to bring them next year so that thay can enjoy the charms of Lake Geneva, a true tourist trap with plenty to amuse women and children not enthralled by the lure of gaming."
Gary Gygax


"20 years? Way to short a period. The fantasy and SF pulp zines in the 1940s were rife with scantily clad women. Frazetta and Boris became famous for such work.

Now that's not politically correct. Tough :D It still is fun, and it sells."

Gary Gygax


"Just so. The only limit I placed on female PCS was no Str above 18. In actual history female participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil. i am always amused when history programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc. They represent less than one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically. Frankly, not only did society generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable activities."
Gary Gygax


I can't stress enough that he said this stuff -here-. On ENWorld. Before it became against policy to say stuff like this.

Maybe he didn't walk around lamenting that women weren't all Gor for him or treated women as stray dogs to be kicked...

But this is the Gygax... The person chiefly credited with creating our hobby. Throwing out "Females" with the same sort of derogation as you might here on incel forums.

And it really feels like he'd misgender me in order to maintain his "Biological Determinism". And that -sucks-.


I'm not fully understanding how Ed Greenwood's laser bewbz are synonymous with Gygax's opinions on gendered brains.
 

All I can find on Greenwood (not Gygax) on this particular issue is him defending the inclusion of a trans character in Baldur's Gate:


And (while this is a separate issue) I think he's had plenty of bi and poly characters, sometimes under the radar.

Gygax may have been responsible in large part for many of the issues with the hobby as you say, but Greenwood was born a full 20 years after Gygax and is a completely different person.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
I'm not fully understanding how Ed Greenwood's laser bewbz are synonymous with Gygax's opinions on gendered brains.
Frazetta and Boris lamentation ties into that. The oversexualization and objectification of women as a thing that was really common in early D&D (and hasn't entirely faded out) didn't appear out of nowhere. The guys in charge put it there.
All I can find on Greenwood (not Gygax) on this particular issue is him defending the inclusion of a trans character in Baldur's Gate:


And (while this is a separate issue) I think he's had plenty of bi and poly characters, sometimes under the radar.

Gygax may have been responsible in large part for many of the issues with the hobby as you say, but Greenwood was born a full 20 years after Gygax and is a completely different person.
The above said... I am glad you brought that to my attention, Blue. I'd only really seen Ed's pervy takes on things, really. So it's nice to know that he pushed back on that controversy!
 


I'm not fully understanding how Ed Greenwood's laser bewbz are synonymous with Gygax's opinions on gendered brains.
I never envisioned the scene having the spellfire coming from her breasts specifically, just from the center of her chest. But Greenwood is well known for being a bit of a perv, something even his wife used to chuckle about, and he has a "type" of woman he likes to write into many of his novels. Powerful, buxom, wild, sexually liberated, etc. Like a Heavy Metal magazine lady.
 

Mad_Jack

Hero
Lol, yep. Been awhile since I cracked that open but there it is, in all its glory:

Shandril laughed. Her blazing fingers found the throat of her tunic and ripped it open. From her bared breast poured out spellfire as she backed down the tunnel. Rock cracked and burst into fragments.

Okay, just playing devil's advocate here, but traditionally, the phrase "bared breast" is not a sexist reference to female breasts, but historically meant that anyone had pulled aside their armor or clothing for any reason to reveal their chest.
Think of any scene in a movie or book where someone points a sword at another person, threatening to kill them, and the other person simply pulls open their shirt to expose their heart and says, "Do it."
Self-admitted "perv"or not, I highly doubt that Mr. Greenwood was choosing that particular moment in the fight to suddenly have his main character giggle, lift her shirt and go, "Look! Boob missiles!" rather than the character realizing that raw magic was pouring out of her flesh wherever it was exposed and simply opening her tunic to expose more of it.
Archaically, the word "breast" meant any reference to the chest area, whether male or female, human or animal.
But in modern society, no one uses the word breast in that way anymore unless buying poultry at the grocery store, and it has come to largely be thought of only as a reference to female genitalia. Which is why if the character had been male no one would have thought twice about it, realizing that the phrase was being used in the traditional sense, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
 


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