D&D 5E Renewing the D&D Next cosmology through Anthroposophy

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Yora

Legend
Occult science indicates that when there is a polarity, then, regardless of what you call the two, they are both bad. For example, what Milton calls "God", is really Lucifer, and what he calls "the Devil" is Ahriman.

From a 1919 lecture:
Since I studied religious studies for several years. Is it from a person describing his own views, or from someone trying to describe the views of other people.

Late 19th and early 20th century is very fascinating for the former, and very shoddy for the later. :p
 

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I don't understand the purpose of the linked page.

Yora, it is an example of how a fictional setting can be re-imagined using anthroposophical science as a lense. The webpage is about Middle-earth, but I suggest that the D&D 5e design team do something similar with the D&D cosmology, or at least the default, core cosmology.
 


Yora

Legend
All I see is a list of "Tolkin Character and Antroposophic Character" with a few quotes by Tolkin, but no explaination what the purpose of the list is or how we could use it to improve our settings.
 

All I see is a list of "Tolkin Character and Antroposophic Character" with a few quotes by Tolkin, but no explaination what the purpose of the list is or how we could use it to improve our settings.

The page is spartan, but there's a lot there.

Tolkien's world is already aligned with deep archetypes, in ways that the D&D worlds aren't yet. For example, until 4e renewed the planar cosmology, D&D was structured so that Grey non-ethical Neutrality was at the center of all. This "greyness" (or "redness" in Dragonlance) was encoded into the "DNA" of the settings. I am glad for the work of Gary Gygax, but it is my perception that this Greyness was carried over from Gygax's personality.

I gave some indications earlier in the thread of how the core 5e cosmology and alignment system might benefit from further re-structuring along the lines of anthroposophical occultism. With jonesy's feedback, I shared how spiritual science might be utilized to renew the world of Krynn.
 


Mercurius

Legend
[MENTION=55456]Anselyn[/MENTION], the word "science" was used by Steiner for his work, which he called "Spiritual Science," which was science in the sense that he advocated an empirical approach to spirituality, one not based upon belief or faith but experience (that said, most Anthroposophists treat Steiner's words as gospel and Anthroposophy as a religion). It wasn't science in the narrow sense that it is commonly (and perhaps erroneously) used, that is dealing only with the physical world. By the way, I'm not saying that Steiner is correct in terms of specifics, but that I agree that science need not be limited to physical, sensible realities, that there is a "science of inner domains" that manifests in different cultural contexts, from Tibetan tantra to Hermetic alchemy to Steiner's Anthroposophy.

[MENTION=6688049]DnDPhilmont[/MENTION], thanks for the Tolkien link - interesting stuff there. The similarities support my view that there is a common wellspring of mythology, which most fantasy taps into to various degrees. The reason Tolkien's work is so popular, powerful and evocative is not as much because he brought a new genre, or sub-genre, into being (that would explain his initial popularity, not his sustained popularity), nor is it because he was a particularly skilled writer (some are rather critical of his style which is, at the least, a tad anachronistic and sounds a bit dated), but because he tapped into deep archetypal forms that live within all of us, and thus resonate on a "soul" level.

If we're to use Coleridge's taxonomy of Imagination, I would say that the primary Imagination is a spiritual capacity that few tap into, while the secondary imagination is what could be called "true art" - that echoes and manifests the vision of the primary Imagination. But most art, most fantasy, is merely the regurgitated re-combinations of what Coleridge calls fancy which, he says, deals only with "fixities and definitives" rather than living, archetypal forms. Tolkien's work is so vital, imo, because he had a deep experience of primary Imagination, which was expressed through his secondary Imagination of Middle-earth.

We see glimmers of this in RPGs, but just glimmers. Most RPG ideas are the products of fancy and referential to other works within "The Tradition" (of RPGs). Yet even then you'll find deeply interesting ideas and concepts that have a certain kind of archetypal resonance (which is one of the reasons I'm a collector of settings).
 

Steiner also believes in Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite's nine Angelic hierarchies which could work for the forces of good and also have decent D&D correlates (planetars, solars, etc). I wouldn't go beyond the first three levels, though, as the higher beings are more abstract.

Yes. For example, Tolkien (whether consciously or unconsciously) only employs the first three Hierarchies: the Maiar (Angeloi), Valar (Archangeloi), and Eru Ilúvatar as the Father God (the leader of the Archai)--though there are other Archai mentioned in The Book of Lost Tales: Danuin, Ranuin, and Fanuin (Day, Month, and Year), sons of Anuin (Time), "who is the oldest of the Ainur, and is beyond [the Door of Night], and is subject to Ilúvatar".

Likewise for D&D5e, a reintroduction of 2nd Edition's divine rank and BECMI's Immortal Hierarchy, combined with an awareness of the concept of spiritual-scientific Hierarchies, might be a useful tool.

In the Great Wheel cosmology:
Demigod/Exarch
Lesser Deity
Intermediate Deity
Greater Deity
Overdeity (Lord Ao of the Forgotten Realms, Lady of Pain of Sigil, Highgod of Krynn, Io the Ninefold Dragon)

BECMI cosmology:
Initiate
Temporal
Celestial
Empyreal
Eternal
Hierarch
The Old Ones

Anthroposophical cosmology:


The Third Hierarchy:
  • Angeloi (Sons of Twilight, Sons of Life, the Lunar Pitris, Etheric Devas, the lesser gods, the modern-day spirits of businesses, organizations, and other subnational human groups)
  • Archangeloi (Folk-souls, Spirits of Nations, the Solar Pitris, Spirits of Fire, the leading gods of Greek and Norse mythology, the Astral Devas)
  • Archai (Zeitgeists/Time Spirits, Spirit of an Age, Primal Beginnings, Spirits of Personality, the Greek titans)
The Second Hierarchy:
  • Exousiai (Elohim, Powers, Authorities, Spirits of Form)
  • Dynami (Mights, Spirits of Motion)
  • Kyriotetes (Dominions, Spirits of Wisdom)
The First Hierarchy:
  • The Thrones (Spirits of Will)
  • Cherubim (Spirits of Harmony)
  • Seraphim (Spirits of Love)
The Godhead

I'm not suggesting that D&D hamhandedly shoehorn itself into a real-world occult cosmology. But just as 4e re-composed and streamlined the cosmology, 5e might re-compose the hierarchies or divine ranks. I'll give it more thought and maybe post something later.
 
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