D&D 5E Resource-Draining Model D&D Doesn't Work (for me)

[Swarmkeeper]

In FLGS games, I transitioned to a different kind of initiative altogether; player or monster with highest initiative modifier goes first. (Feel free to turn this into a roll, but I see little point in sticking someone with a roll of a 1 all night). After that turn, the player (or GM, respectively) simply chooses who goes next until everyone's had a turn. More player cooperation and planning, and you'd be surprised how often the monsters are not chosen to be last. It's a quicker way to create dynamic turns, than rolling initiative every round.

Popcorn!

 

[Xaelvaen]

Popcorn!

Yes, thank you! I knew I had read this somewhere, but couldn't remember the article for the life of me!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Popcorn!

We tried it. Didn't like it. It is faster to roll once and repeat as the standard rules are. Of course, the DM displays the order on the TV mounted to the wall, so everyone knows when there turn is coming up.

But, hey, maybe the popcorn system will work for the OP.

 

[Xaelvaen]

We tried it. Didn't like it. It is faster to roll once and repeat as the standard rules are. Of course, the DM displays the order on the TV mounted to the wall, so everyone knows when there turn is coming up.

But, hey, maybe the popcorn system will work for the OP.

We hate static initiative SO much it's not funny. The current system my home game plays has a Speed cost for every action you take in a round, reducing your initiative for the next round, and that's sort of our staple we add to almost every game we play (even 5E). Popcorn is the greatest watered down version of dynamic initiative we can tolerate, so I figured I'd give it a recommendation.

Was it just the speed that made it unliked, or were there other factors? (Pure curiosity here)

 

[DND_Reborn]

We hate static initiative SO much it's not funny. The current system my home game plays has a Speed cost for every action you take in a round, reducing your initiative for the next round, and that's sort of our staple we add to almost every game we play (even 5E). Popcorn is the greatest watered down version of dynamic initiative we can tolerate, so I figured I'd give it a recommendation.

Was it just the speed that made it unliked, or were there other factors? (Pure curiosity here)

We played with individual initiative, in older editions modified by speed factors, casting times, etc., and at least rolled in 5E for a long time. We toyed with separate initiative speed for certain actions, movement, etc. But then a new player was like, "Oh, that is how you do it? We always just rolled once and moved on to the rounds."

So, at first, I abhorred the idea of cyclical initiative, thinking it would lead to meta-gaming, unreasonable planning, etc. I decided to give the roll-and-repeat system a chance. Honestly, none of that stuff I was worried about happened. Our combat is so much quicker now, especially using average damage. The only thing that slows things down now is when some players still insist on rolling for damage like sneak attacks, fireballs, etc. They have to count our their dice, roll, and add it up. When I cast fireball, it does 28 damage, save for 14. Nice, simple, quick.

And you know what? It all works out just as well as before. The ONLY time the DM rolls damage for anything is if using the average damage would result in a character's death. This way, at least such a character has a random chance for survival instead of simply allowing the average damage to kill them off.

I know doing it this way is certainly not for everyone, but now that we're doing it this way and have been for a long time, I can't imagine going back to a more complex and cumbersome system.

 

[Fanaelialae]

You cant manage that in game?

Like; get them to have a separate sheet of paper. On that sheet of paper resources are tracked. It looks something like this (Lets presume something complex like an 11th level MC character with a ton of resources - a 5th level Vengeance Paladin, 3rd level Battlemaster Fighter, 3rd Level Warlock; Vuman, Lucky feat, Rod of the Pact Keeper):

-----------------------------

Resource Tracker:

Long rest
Paladin Spell slots (1st): O O O O
Paladin Spell slots (2nd): O O
Hit Dice (d10): O O O O O O O O
Hit Dice (d8's): O O O
Luck points: O O O
Rod of the Pact Keeper: O

Lay on Hands: (25 points) Used: __________

Hit Points: (Max XXX) Current: ____________

Short rest:
Divine Channel: O
Oath of Enmity: O
Superiority dice: O O O O
Second Wind: O
Action Surge: O
Warlock slots (2nd): O O

----------------------

They just color in or tick the 'O's next to the ability when they use it. On a Short rest, they rub out the 'O's under the Short rest stuff. On a Long rest they do the same with Long rest stuff.

You can even write these trackers up yourself (takes literally 5 minutes per PC) and hand them out for them at the start of the session. Make them as fancy as you want (bonus points if you make them look pretty).

If you want to, you can also ask them to hand them over to you at the end of the session, just to keep them honest.

I do this with my players, and with my own PCs (it helps me keep track of stuff).

I've been making trackers like that since I was a kid. The trick with things like that is that it doesn't help if players forget to use them. Some of them have those O's on their sheets already (I didn't even have to suggest it, it's just that obvious). Doesn't do much if the player gets so excited about resolving their ability that they forget to tick the tracker. I've never had issues with them tracking HP. I've had some issues with them tracking XP though. So I'm essentially certain that it's not a matter of cheating, merely carelessness.

As I said before, this is a friendly game amongst co-workers. For about half the group it's their first time playing 5e, and for the rest it's their first time with a TTRPG. I want them to get bitten by the bug. I don't want the game to devolve into me nagging them like their mother every two seconds, because I don't feel like that's the best way to hook a newbie with lifelong love for the game. Good table practices are something that can be taught down the line. Love for the game cannot. IMO that initial spark is better struck with fun than accounting. I've seen more than one DM lose a new player because they were more focused on 'playing the right way' than whether that player was actually enjoying themselves.

Hence, my approach. Perhaps you disagree and feel that accounting is the most fun you can have under the sun. That's fine. However, this is my group to run and I'm doing things my way. All I said was that I sometimes have trouble getting through more than one encounter in a session. Not all the time. There have been sessions where the newbies were on point and we got through 3-5 encounters in a single 3-4 hour session, along with a decent amount of role play. Not every session is like that, but I didn't phrase my post as a cry for help and thank you, but I don't need your help to 'fix' my game because it isn't broken. I said was that it would be nice if there were guidelines for building encounters for adventuring days meant to have only 1-2 encounters, for those times when that's what I want to run.

 

[Flamestrike]

I've been making trackers like that since I was a kid. The trick with things like that is that it doesn't help if players forget to use them. Some of them have those O's on their sheets already (I didn't even have to suggest it, it's just that obvious). Doesn't do much if the player gets so excited about resolving their ability that they forget to tick the tracker. I've never had issues with them tracking HP. I've had some issues with them tracking XP though. So I'm essentially certain that it's not a matter of cheating, merely carelessness.

As I said before, this is a friendly game amongst co-workers. For about half the group it's their first time playing 5e, and for the rest it's their first time with a TTRPG. I want them to get bitten by the bug. I don't want the game to devolve into me nagging them like their mother every two seconds, because I don't feel like that's the best way to hook a newbie with lifelong love for the game. Good table practices are something that can be taught down the line. Love for the game cannot. IMO that initial spark is better struck with fun than accounting. I've seen more than one DM lose a new player because they were more focused on 'playing the right way' than whether that player was actually enjoying themselves.

Hence, my approach. Perhaps you disagree and feel that accounting is the most fun you can have under the sun. That's fine. However, this is my group to run and I'm doing things my way. All I said was that I sometimes have trouble getting through more than one encounter in a session. Not all the time. There have been sessions where the newbies were on point and we got through 3-5 encounters in a single 3-4 hour session, along with a decent amount of role play. Not every session is like that, but I didn't phrase my post as a cry for help and thank you, but I don't need your help to 'fix' my game because it isn't broken. I said was that it would be nice if there were guidelines for building encounters for adventuring days meant to have only 1-2 encounters, for those times when that's what I want to run.

I dont get how they 'forget' to use them.

Remind them to do so. Heck, politely order them to do so. After each ability usage ask them to 'tick it off the list'.

It's like someone 'forgetting' to write down the damage they've just taken or something. Surely you ensure they record that right?

Do they forget to write down XP and magic items they find as well?

I do character sheet audits on my players. If I cant read something on the sheet it defaults to the worst possible thing (contra proforentum). If a magic item is duplicated in the party because someone forgot to rub it out when he gave it to someone else, it gets stolen by thieves. If a player has tracked encumbrance badly (or not at all) he can deal with a few levels of exhaustion that session (from a sore back). If a player forgets to note resource usage (ticking off slots or rages etc) then I assume the worst, and they're 'out' of that resource for the session.

Its a policy of strict liability. I have a lot going on as DM (statting up encounters, planning adventures and hooks, policing the adventuring day, running NPCs, making rulings, tracking several monsters HP and so forth) to have to worry that the players arent recording their own stuff.

Also, award inspiration or some other bennie for keeping accurate records, and a legible character sheet. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar and all that.

Step one, you establish expected behavior at session zero (or before the session starts). Step two, you move to gentle reminders, and step three you politely order them to conform. Step four is when negative consequences flow.

The main point, is it's your table and your game. Set down the rules, and enforce them.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I dont get how they 'forget' to use them.

Remind them to do so. Heck, politely order them to do so. After each ability usage ask them to 'tick it off the list'.

It's like someone 'forgetting' to write down the damage they've just taken or something. Surely you ensure they record that right?

Do they forget to write down XP and magic items they find as well?

I do character sheet audits on my players. If I cant read something on the sheet it defaults to the worst possible thing (contra proforentum). If a magic item is duplicated in the party because someone forgot to rub it out when he gave it to someone else, it gets stolen by thieves. If a player has tracked encumbrance badly (or not at all) he can deal with a few levels of exhaustion that session (from a sore back). If a player forgets to note resource usage (ticking off slots or rages etc) then I assume the worst, and they're 'out' of that resource for the session.

Also, award inspiration or some other bennie for keeping accurate records, and a legible character sheet. Catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar and all that.

Step one, you establish expected behavior at session zero (or before the session starts). Step two, you move to gentle reminders, and step three you politely order them to conform. Step four is when negative consequences flow.

The main point, is it's your table and your game. Set down the rules, and enforce them.

Your response strongly suggests to me that you didn't even read my reply in it's entirety, as I addressed the very questions that you ask in my first paragraph.

The point is, my table, not yours. I choose what to enforce, not you.

 

[Flamestrike]

The point is, my table, not yours. I choose what to enforce, not you.

I agree with you.

You're deliberately choosing not to enforce resource usage of your players... in a game with a central mechanic of resource management.

That's entirely your choice, but surely you can see the problems here? You cant really put your hand up (as DM) and comment about anything to do with resource management and blame it on anything else but your decision you made not to enforce it.

And also, you mentioned they were new players. Isn't it kind of imperative in that case that you (in one of the DMs roles as 'teacher of the game') police that a bit? Get them into good habits and all?

Dont get me wrong mate, it's all well and good to be hard and loose with the rules, and run things all free-form and all that. But you cant really then critique the rules around resource management, when you're running a game like that.

 

[CapnZapp]

Now the discussion's getting silly.

One of you're saying "don't blame the game if you can't be bothered to track resources in a resource-management game".

That's entirely reasonable... except the OPs topic is something else:

"I don't like D&D being a resource-management game. How can I make D&D be not about managing resources?"