5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
I'd give Polymorph to the Arcane, yup.
Maybe give the Conjure: fey and beast to Primal, Conjure celestial and demons to Divine and give Elementals to Arcane?
 
Arcane is going to get Wall of Force, which is pretty much all the Wall action anyone really needs. :)
It was also based somewhat on the amount of control currently missing from the arcane list. Wall of Force is the big one though, for sure, but the wait to 9th level is also pretty long.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah!

also @Fenris-77, would you prefer having Misty Step or Thunder Step in the Arcane Sphere? Honestly I'm not sure I'm a big fan of teleporting powers on the Primal Sphere, so by switching some spells, I think I prefer having them both in the Arcane Sphere.
Is the Druid list still associated loosely with Fey, or are Fey more Arcane?

They teleport the most, in dnd, so I’d use that to decide tbh. Though I’d love a Druid spell that is like lightning arrow, but jsut a spell attack against the far off target, and you and the final target Teleport to swap places.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Down for that.
Okay I know I said I was bowing out, but the actual spell list part of this does still interest me (I just would take some spells and make them unique to the secondary casters).

Doesn’t trafficking with fiends seem...like...1000% wizard business? I’m struggling to recall ever seeing a cleric in any edition doing anything with fiends except smite them with righteous fury.
 

dnd4vr

Keeper of the Seven Keys
UPDATE: 4th level spells are up in the OP. Luckily, as the spell levels get higher, the lists get shorter, but the decisions can get harder (even if there are less of them). ;)

It is interesting following everyone's ideas!
 

dnd4vr

Keeper of the Seven Keys
Druids really should be conjuring elementals.

Wizards should be summoning Demons & 'monsters.' Clerics, banishing them.

I like giving Arcane the Locate spells.
And, the others are classic Wizard, too.
Unfortunately, this is where I think we need to start shifting the bailiwicks of the Big 3. As others have said, I like the idea of Clerics summoning demons and being able to banish them. This allows for good and evil to both be represented in the same class.

While druids conjuring elements makes some sense obviously, they already conjure other things. Changing our mindset to something more along the lines druids can controls and manipulate elements, but once that force takes on sentience they can't, and this is where the wizard steps in?

It isn't easy, trying to re-imagine some long-standing concepts with regard to these spells. :(
 
While druids conjuring elements makes some sense obviously, they already conjure other things. ...something more along the lines druids can controls and manipulate elements, but once that force takes on sentience they can't, and this is where the wizard steps in?
Actually, back in the day, MUs concentrated to control elementals, while Druids were allied to them, so rather the opposite.

]
 

Minigiant

Adventurer
Steel Wind Strike
Druids don't do steel nothing.

All Ranger spells don't belong in Druid. All ranger spells just don't go in the Druid list.

Rangers are not weaker Druid. Part of the Ranger is that it is a lesser wizard as well. Especially Diviner. Rangers are Civilization in the Wilderness. Some of it is using human divination to track enemies and inform towns of threats. Goes back to the OD&D Ranger.
 
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Hold Monster
Though I'm for the Cleric getting Hold Person - connotes divine authority, like Command - I think the wizard taking this one would be fine.
Scrying (B,C,D,War,W)
Another one just everyone needs.

Flame Strike
Negative Energy Flood
Flame Strike's half-radiant damage is consistent with its status as classic Cleric spell.
I see negative energy as unnatural to the Druid, and emblematic of the EHP.
 

Sadras

Adventurer
I love the Discussion Points and the bolding of spells on the various lists.
Leave it for each individual DM to make the call for his particular setting while all the admin on the easier spells has already been done. I'm definitely incorporating this for the next campaign I start.
Thanks guys!
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Hold Monster (B,S,War,W)
Scrying (B,C,D,War,W)
To me, the ''X monster'' are an Arcane thing, ''X person'' are a Divine thing and ''X beast and plant'' are Primal
Scrying should to the Wizard, I personally dont see it on another list. The other Sphere have Commune to know the what their foe is about, wizards take the matter in their own hands.

I would also switch Immolation and Flaming Strike in the Primal/Divine Sphere.
I'd give Danse Macabre to the wizard (animate dead is borderline, Danse Macabre is a mochery of the divine powers, be it good or bad) and give Dream to the Cleric instead: I feel ''prophetic'' stuff belong in the divine sphere.

And maybe Creation could go on the Primal list, I we keep in mind the ''planar echo'' theme. Its a spell that create primordial matter from the stuff of one of the Prime's echo.
 
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dnd4vr

Keeper of the Seven Keys
Actually, back in the day, MUs concentrated to control elementals, while Druids were allied to them, so rather the opposite.

]
I know it was the other way around--that is why I offering this as a different way of looking at the class dynamic.

Druids don't do steel nothing.

All Ranger spells don't belong in Druid. All ranger spells just don't go in the Druid list.

Rangers are not weaker Druid. Part of the Ranger is that it is a lesser wizard as well. Especially Diviner. Rangers are Civilization in the Wilderness. Some of it is using human divination to track enemies and inform towns of threats. Goes back to the OD&D Ranger.
Actually, Druids can use metal weapons without any problem, this has been the case since 1E:

1581683486641.png


As you can see, daggers and scimitars were used, scimitars actually very common IME anyway.

No one ever said Ranger was weaker, if fact we are making them much stronger by drastically increasing their spell selection. You saw one spell you objected to, and ran with it. So...

Rangers, as we are dedicating as the half-caster of "natural/primal" spells, have most of their spells belong to the Druid. While Rangers did get some M-U spells in 1E, our goal is the anyone who plays a Ranger now has access to the same spells they did before in 5E. By putting all of their spells under Druid, they not only have access to most of their current spells, but others as well. The only spells they have lost are:

Alarm
Silence
Nondetection

Any or all of which, personally, I wouldn't mind moving to Druid. But, also considering all the new spells they are gaining, I think it is a reasonable compromise. I am sorry if disagree, but from the beginning hopefully we all understood compromises would be made.

Similarly, the Paladin loses:

Magic Weapon
Elemental Weapon

But it also gains a ton of new spells.

I love the Discussion Points and the bolding of spells on the various lists.
Leave it for each individual DM to make the call for his particular setting while all the admin on the easier spells has already been done. I'm definitely incorporating this for the next campaign I start.
Thanks guys!
Glad you are enjoying it! Please add any contributions you care to and I hope it works well in your game. If you can, share any experience you have with it. :)
 

dnd4vr

Keeper of the Seven Keys
Though I'm for the Cleric getting Hold Person - connotes divine authority, like Command - I think the wizard taking this one would be fine.
Another one just everyone needs.

Flame Strike's half-radiant damage is consistent with its status as classic Cleric spell.
I see negative energy as unnatural to the Druid, and emblematic of the EHP.
To me, the ''X monster'' are an Arcane thing, ''X person'' are a Divine thing and ''X beast and plant'' are Primal
Scrying should to the Wizard, I personally dont see it on another list. The other Sphere have Commune to know the what their foe is about, wizards take matter in their own hands.
Thanks, and I agree. I'll wait for some more responses on the discussion points before updating the lists.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
I just want to add that this experience is really pleasing, seeing many old-time posters of Enworld collaborating to create community stuff without too much arguing or bitterness. Pretty cool, guys, pretty cool.

Its seem we can do better than argue the use of the Oxford comma and the realism of longsword vs arming swords. And I havent see any sentence starting with: ''Well...theoretically...''.

Yeahhh us!
 

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