D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[Fenris-77]

Don't go too crazy allocating all the control spells to the cleric. Control is a by a mile the most powerful feature of 5e spellcasting, and the blasting is generally underwhelming. I'd be ok spreading the control out a little more evenly, but that's about it. This is doubly true if there won't be any damage cantrips.

Generally, I don't think that mind control is particularly Cleric-y either, but whatevs.

 

[Minigiant]

On the Sorcerer

What if the fix on the Sorcerer sameyness is to give it is 4th edition powers back as spells and swap out the wizard equivalents.

Sorcerer cantrips
Acid Orb
Acid Splash
Burning Spray
Chaos Bolt
Chill Touch
Dancing Lights
Dragonfrost
Elemental Mantle
Fire Bolt
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Minor Illusion
Poison Spray
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp
Storm Walk
Stretch
True Strike
Unseen Aid

 

[Tony Vargas]

What are your thoughts about nerfing Produce Flame to shed light and maybe ignite combustibles, but take away its attack potential? Then we could give it to Druid, move Dancing Lights to Wizard and Light to Cleric?

Fine with it.
I think it shakes out very nicely. The Druid conjures real, if minor flame. The Cleric, divine light. The wizard, magical, heatless flames.

My preference is always for something new rather than just a nerfed version of an existing spell.

Better nerfed Produce Flame (and iconic spell, IMHO, as a 1e Druid fan), than no Produce Flame.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think it's OK, but I think I'd prefer something like a single object Faerie Fire that just produces the same violet, blue, or green light (it's a different kind of visual, and makes the Druid a little more "eerie", which I like). My preference is always for something new rather than just a nerfed version of an existing spell.
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Modifying Control Flames to be able start small fires on flammable objects (which I always thought was kind of silly it couldn't do) could be another way for Druids to produce light.

Well, do you think Faerie Fire as is in 5E is too powerful? That is the only way I would consider a nerfed version or similar spell as a "lighting" cantrip. It is eerie, though...

I would be fine also improving Control Flames to light objects on fire if they are normally flammable.

Of these options, which do you prefer/feel is more thematic?

1. Faerie Spark (out-line one 5' or smaller object, no advantage or such element, just light (dim?).
2. Control Fire add-on (cause a small fire from flammable object)
3. Produce Flame (as written, but can't throw/no attack potential)

I think @Tony Vargas is leaning towards #3... but I could be wrong.

 

[DND_Reborn]

On the Sorcerer

What if the fix on the Sorcerer sameyness is to give it is 4th edition powers back as spells and swap out the wizard equivalents.

Sorcerer cantrips
Acid Orb
Acid Splash
Burning Spray
Chaos Bolt
Chill Touch
Dancing Lights
Dragonfrost
Elemental Mantle
Fire Bolt
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Minor Illusion
Poison Spray
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp
Storm Walk
Stretch
True Strike
Unseen Aid

Thanks! We'll keep it in mind when the Sorcerer becomes the topic, but the first priority (as I see it) is to nail down the spell lists of the Big 3. Then we have to figure out how Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock will fit into it all.

 

[Tony Vargas]

2. Control Fire add-on (cause a small fire from flammable object)
3. Produce Flame (as written, but can't throw/no attack potential)

I think @Tony Vargas is leaning towards #3... but I could be wrong.

I'd like either of those. Magically lighting a fire has always seemed a cool cantrip effect. Doing it ex nillo with Produce Flame is that much cooler, but lighting fires + what control fire already does is a nice deal, too.

 

[TwoSix]

1. Faerie Spark (out-line one 5' or smaller object, no advantage or such element, just light (dim?).
2. Control Fire add-on (cause a small fire from flammable object)
3. Produce Flame (as written, but can't throw/no attack potential)

1, 2, 3, in that order.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'd like either of those. Magically lighting a fire has always seemed a cool cantrip effect. Doing it ex nillo with Produce Flame is that much cooler, but lighting fires + what control fire already does is a nice deal, too.

1, 2, 3, in that order.

Hmm. I am leaning towards #2 then. You both seem to like it well enough, even if the effect isn't as eerie or cool.

Actually, now that I look at it, Druidcraft already covers it:

You instantly light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.

As I was thinking a torch or small campfire size light.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Then we have to figure out how Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock will fit into it all.

One complication is that the Bard started out a druidic caster in 1e (consistent with the Celtic Bards of legend, who studied with Druids), and got more and more arcane with each iteration.

 

[DND_Reborn]

One complication is that the Bard started out a druidic caster in 1e (consistent with the Celtic Bards of legend, who studied with Druids), and got more and more arcane with each iteration.

Yeah, I loved 1E bards (so powerful, though!) but I like the idea of Bards choosing their spells from anywhere. But more on that later.