Reworking Summon spells

[mwnrnc]

I'm currently working on a low-magic/quasi 'realistic' homebrew setting and house rules set for my 3.5 group. One of the things that has come up in my revamps of some spells is Summon Monster/Nature's Ally/Undead. I don't like the notion that the caster summons a Celestial Dog or Dire Bear or Mohrg from another plane where it was doing...something...and then 'poof' it just appears for x rounds, does your bidding, and then 'poof' vanishes again. I don't dislike the idea of summoned meatshields or other helpers in general, I just don't care for the way they are implemented/fluffed. I am hoping some of you may have attempted something like this before or have ideas for how it could be done. Most of the games we play are lowish level (seldom above 10), so it matters less to me that any house rules 'scale' all the way to epic levels.

My ideas so far:
- Summon Monster: Rework as basically Summon Demon/Devil/Elemental. I like this because I have more or less done away with planes other than Heaven, Hell, and the Material plane and lowish-level demons/devils could plausibly be summoned temporarily. Elementals would be created by magically coalescing fire, water, whatever, and then giving it a semblance of will and direction. A demon/devil would get a will save to resist the caster's influence.
- Summon Nature's Ally: Here's where I have the most trouble. I really dislike the idea of a druid, who is supposed to be connected with the natural world, pulling an elephant from another plane and using it in a volcanic wasteland until it pops back out. I was thinking something like 'calling' local fauna. The druid would call an animal or animals of their choice from nearby and it would run to the caster's side, if possible, in x rounds. Then, it would serve the caster as normal. In this case, the animal would not technically be summoned and, as it could take several rounds to arrive, it would last longer than a standard summoned animal.
- Summon Undead: Would require a nearby corpse or corpses, but otherwise functions as normal.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Critiques?

 

[Dandu]

Was your intent to make it so that no one would bother taking the spells?

 

[Gilladian]

Summon Demon/Devil/Elemental sounds reasonable, except for the "save to disobey" which could be a real bummer, and might mean nobody would use the spell (I know I wouldn't).

I really like the "elementals coalescing from the surroundings" idea, though. That could be very evocative.

The idea of helpful animals from the environment has two problems that I can see: first the long delay - when a PC summons a monster, it is because he/she is in a fight at that moment. They need help right then. A longer duration is good, but then there's a lot more guesswork involved in whether the creature will really be worthwhile.

Also, as a druid, I'd rather call the "essence" of a creature from another plane and use it briefly but harmlessly than call a "real" creature with a role in the local ecology and get it killed.

And then there's always the argument about "what sort of creature you'd get from this region" when you call something. I suspect getting bats and rats would get old, fast.

 

[Pergentile]

Was your intent to make it so that no one would bother taking the spells?

I'm also wondering this. Making spells less mechanically effective because one doesn't like the role-play aspect of them is a poor choice IMO.

Just re-name the spells and rewrite the descriptive text to something like this:
Create Monster
Blah blah creates monster in the casters image of it blah blah blah same mechanically blah blah only exists for a limited time blah blah.

 

[Empirate]

Note that summoned creatures don't really become ripped away from where they are, only to pop back into their own life a few rounds later. If that were the case, killing summoned creatures would perpetually kill them.

Summoning creatures can easily be fluffed as creating an effigy of a being that exists somewhere else, or as summoning spirits that take physical form for a short while, or as calling dead creatures back to life again for a short period, or whatever.

There's really no need to change the actual mechanics of the summoning spells.


Also, concerning the ideas you put forward: There already are some spells that allow demons or devils a save to resist being called, viz. the Planar Binding line. Your take on a Druid calling a creature to help him is essentially his Animal Companion class feature. And what with Elementals, there's really no difference between "creating by magically coalescing blablabla" and "summoning", except in the wording. What exactly is summoning?

 

[mwnrnc]

Was your intent to make it so that no one would bother taking the spells?

I guess my intent was to make it more useful it certain scenarios but less of a 'go-to' spell. I like magic to be dangerous and risky. Perhaps the summoned demons/devils could be of higher level to make the spell more desirable? Of course, that could make it more dangerous if the demon resists the caster's influence...Honestly, I'm okay with a lot fewer of my players taking Summon Monster, but I don't want to unduly handicap the player who wants to be a demon summoner. At the same time, I think, at least in my setting, summoning demons should be a dangerous activity.

Also, as a druid, I'd rather call the "essence" of a creature from another plane and use it briefly but harmlessly than call a "real" creature with a role in the local ecology and get it killed.

I like this idea. It keeps the spell mechanically the same, has a good justification, and prevents the thorny 'what animals are available' issue. Thanks!

Note that summoned creatures don't really become ripped away from where they are, only to pop back into their own life a few rounds later. If that were the case, killing summoned creatures would perpetually kill them.

Actually, I always figured the creature came from a plane from which it is was a native, hence the celestial/fiendish moniker. So there is a Fiendish Octopus swimming along somewhere in the Nine Hells and you pull it into the material plane. If killed on the material plane, it just gets sent back. For Nature's Ally, I'm not sure. For elementals, I figured they got pulled from the appropriate Elemental Plane. For undead, the Negative Energy plane.

Your take on a Druid calling a creature to help him is essentially his Animal Companion class feature.

My original thinking was that, in forest for example, a druid could 'call' a bear in addition to its animal companion and that the bear would come charging out of the undergrowth to help. Or, in a town, the druid could call a flock of crows to distract a guard or something. Nature's Ally should be used, I think, for one-note or one-time use animals or for getting groups of animals.

 

[Rhun]

Didn't AD&D (1E/2E) summons basically work by pulling creatures from the local area? I seem to recall you rolled on the random encounter charts for the type of environment you were in. I'm not at home (where the books are) to confirm this, but I was kind of thinking that is the way it was done.

 

[mwnrnc]

You definitely rolled on a random table, but I don't remember if it was explicitly said that they came from the surrounding area.

 

[frankthedm]

Hmm, I'd say for the druid, use animals at the power level of the "summon monster table" and replace the Celestial / Fiendish with a Nature Spirit-ish template. Like fiendish DR, SR, but lets say it has energy resistance to fire and lightning, and a smite attack that affects aberrations, undead & far realm entities [ if you are using those ]. And it retains animal type.

 

[Dandu]

I guess my intent was to make it more useful it certain scenarios but less of a 'go-to' spell. I like magic to be dangerous and risky. Perhaps the summoned demons/devils could be of higher level to make the spell more desirable? Of course, that could make it more dangerous if the demon resists the caster's influence...Honestly, I'm okay with a lot fewer of my players taking Summon Monster, but I don't want to unduly handicap the player who wants to be a demon summoner. At the same time, I think, at least in my setting, summoning demons should be a dangerous activity.

Ask yourself: Would you ever use this spell as a player given that it's now fairly limited and more dangerous?

I wouldn't. The main attraction of Summon Monster spells is the versatility since you have a good chance of summoning something useful for any given situation. This weakens a balanced spell by restricting what can be summoned, when it can be summoned, and how safely it can be summoned.

If you want to make magic risky and dangerous, that's your choice, but perhaps you'd be happier playing a game that's not Dungeons and Dragons, as it is built upon the assumption that the PCs will use a lot of magic, whether in the form of magical items or spells.