Richard Baker on Orcus and Deity Slaying

[frankthedm]

Meh. She always struck me as rather hackneyed, like a clumsily implemented personification of DM-fiat plus deus-ex-machina.

Yeah, she was an in-joke about the TSR boss.

 

[AZRogue]

Feh, I still cannot for the life of me get behind "killing gods" in D&D.

I'm sure other people ran their games differently, but the concept, for my group, began with 1E. Remember the 02% chance to have your Patron God show up to help you (or punish you, depending) if you called out for help? I've seen that roll succeed five times, though we used to do it for everything. It was just a natural progression. And that was before I was the DM of the group so the encounter would start going bad, we'd call out for aid, and get the roll, the patron diety would show up, and the DM would trump it by having the bad guy open a Gate and having an evil God show up in return. And so it went.

Of course, those were the days when we'd have our characters gamble and if they lost and couldn't pay we'd stick a Ring of Regeneration on them, hack them to pieces, and carry them in a sack until they could come up with the cash somehow.

So, killing Gods, or at least having it be POSSIBLE, is very old school to me.

 

[dm4hire]

I'd model it after Tinman if I did it as that miniseries was a pretty good twist of the story.

I never saw the Lady of Pain as hackneyed, the principle idea what the everyone should be too busy to be concerned with her or concerned with fighting her. She's more the genie in the bottle you don't want to let out.

A lot of thought has to go into it as well; ready to face the consequences of their actions both good and bad. I had a group of players who magic jarred Asmodeus one time and thought they were the bomb; ready to rule Hell until I pointed out that they had just disrupted the balance of power and they were fools to think any Devil was going to let them, let alone escape Hell alive with it. When they exclaimed they would just break him free if they got attacked I asked what they thought he'd do then. Worried they suggested turning the bottle over to a good god and I pointed out that they probably wouldn't be too keen on that either. They suddenly realized the extent of their brash bright idea and planeshifted away before anyone caught them. The bottle turned up in a neutral temple where it vanished shortly after reaching the alter. They were tough but they lacked the requirement to maintain control over what they thought they were going to do, if not for the jar they would have lost the fight as it was.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Meh. She always struck me as rather hackneyed, like a clumsily implemented personification of DM-fiat plus deus-ex-machina.

Funny. I always thought of her as the Elizabeth I to Sigil's 16th-century London. (Moreover, I've never thought she was either "hackneyed" or "clumsily implemented." How many other Gloriana figures are there in FRPGs? How many other deities who kill you for daring to worship them? How many other figures who directly exploit D&D's gate and demiplane mechanics like that?)

 

[kennew142]

I don't like the idea of PCs killing gods either. It doesn't fit my campaign style. I don't even like the gods to intervene indirectly IMC. Heck, my upcoming 4e campaign doesn't even have gods, just very powerful celestials and infernals. Even they don't know the true font of the divine power source.

Other folks like it, however, so I'm glad the rules support it.

 

[lukelightning]

How many other Gloriana figures are there in FRPGs? How many other deities who kill you for daring to worship them? How many other figures who directly exploit D&D's gate and demiplane mechanics like that?)

There are lots of super glory goddess/figures types in D&D and fantasy literature. The Forgotten Realms are full of them.

How many other deities who kill you for daring to worship them? All of them...eventually.

How many other figures who directly exploit D&D's gate and demiplane mechanics like that?
The "omnipotent in my own realm" trope is hardly novel. Heck, it's kind of an assumption of all deities to explain why they don't come to "Earth" (or whatever land) and stop the bad guys themselves. They are powerful in their own realms but not outside.

 

[Keenath]

I want to know at what level I can start granting the townsfolk spells for worshiping me.

Well, I dunno about THAT, but I think you get to be a demigod if you complete the Apotheosis epic destiny.

 

[ruleslawyer]

There are lots of super glory goddess/figures types in D&D and fantasy literature. The Forgotten Realms are full of them.

This right here explains why I don't think you're getting the point. "super glory goddess" has nothing to do with Gloriana. Likewise to my point about planar mechanics; I'm not talking about "home field advantage," but rather about the idea of gate and demiplane mastery, which is briefly explored in Moorcock but not really anywhere else.

 

[lukelightning]

I have no problem with PCs killing gods. Of course, in the games I run there are no real gods, only "gods"; you know, those powerful pushy beings who think they are all that, but really they are just puffed-up demons/devils/angels/whatevers. They don't really grant spells, they just know some secrets of tapping into some divine power sources which they then pass on to a select few of their worshippers.

 

[Fifth Element]

She certainly never gave any PCs any jobs. If your PCs are running errands for the Lady of Pain, your DM is doing Planescape wrong.

How can anyone ever do any campaign wrong as long as they enjoy it? There's no one right way to do anything in D&D. Is it fun? If yes, you're doing it right.