Rogue/Fighter, Questions
- Thread starter Caspian Marqine
- Start date
Magesmiley
Explorer
I would strongly advocate going for two-weapon fighting ASAP. The ability to tack another attack on can't be emphasized enough when you're working with sneak attack. Every extra attack you can manage adds another 1d6 damage right now.
Flanking is going to be critical very fast to this ability to dish out damage. The Improved Feint trick breaks down when you are working with multiple attacks - you still need a move action for improved Feint if I recall, which means no full-round attack. You've mentioned that there is a monk in your group - does he have the ability to regularly into flanking positions with you? If not, you might want to discuss that with him. He could significantly up the group's damage potential if he's always looking for opportunities to help you out. Monks in general are pretty capable when it comes to moving into flanking positions. Tumble is a class skill for them and they have a hideously high movement rate.
As far as progression from where you're at, I'd advocate 2 more levels of fighter, then another rogue (primarily to up the sneak attack), taking two-weapon fighting for your 6th-level Fighter bonus feat and then probably Power Attack (or possibly Improved Two-Weapon Fighting if your Dex is high enough, although every 9th-level meat shield really should have Power Attack) as your 9th level feat. So, it would look something like:
7 Fighter 2nd Attack (BAB+6)
8 Fighter Two-WeaponFighting (3 Attacks Total)
9 Rogue 2d6 Sneak Attack, Power Attack.
Flanking is going to be critical very fast to this ability to dish out damage. The Improved Feint trick breaks down when you are working with multiple attacks - you still need a move action for improved Feint if I recall, which means no full-round attack. You've mentioned that there is a monk in your group - does he have the ability to regularly into flanking positions with you? If not, you might want to discuss that with him. He could significantly up the group's damage potential if he's always looking for opportunities to help you out. Monks in general are pretty capable when it comes to moving into flanking positions. Tumble is a class skill for them and they have a hideously high movement rate.
As far as progression from where you're at, I'd advocate 2 more levels of fighter, then another rogue (primarily to up the sneak attack), taking two-weapon fighting for your 6th-level Fighter bonus feat and then probably Power Attack (or possibly Improved Two-Weapon Fighting if your Dex is high enough, although every 9th-level meat shield really should have Power Attack) as your 9th level feat. So, it would look something like:
7 Fighter 2nd Attack (BAB+6)
8 Fighter Two-WeaponFighting (3 Attacks Total)
9 Rogue 2d6 Sneak Attack, Power Attack.
Herpes Cineplex
First Post
In the pickup game we were playing last year, I was in the same spot you are: the rogue/fighter who was basically the only guy able to stand in the front line and protect the fragile spellcaster-types. It's not an easy gig, is it?
But honestly, you're doing a fantastic job at this already. I mean, an AC of 28 and the ability to deal out some actual damage even when you're not getting a sneak attack? You should be damn proud of your work so far. You're already using feints to get the sneak attack in even though no one's there to flank with you, and it sounds like you have a nice collection of items to back yourself up with. So far, you're doing great.
But I can see why the hit point situation would be becoming more and more of a problem as y'all gain levels; you're starting to hit the "glass ninja" stage of rogue/fighters, where your AC is high enough that the only things which can regularly hit you just happen to be the bad guys who can do enough damage to kill you in just a few rounds. And at that point, your melee career starts to look a bit tenuous.
So first of all, you really need to start consistently using buffing spells and/or items. Patryn of Elvenshae's absolutely right about getting yourself a miss chance: trust me, you'll be amazed at how much difference even a 20% miss chance will make in terms of your survivability. Get friendly spellcasters to buff you, get potions and items that let you buff yourself, and if you've got the Use Magic Device chops to use 'em, get scrolls or wands, too.
Step two is something that I'm sure you're already doing, but could probably stand to emphasize more: avoid fights whenever possible. The sneaky and social solutions to problems get you just as much experience as fighting would (assuming your GM doesn't have some kind of unnatural prejudice against nonviolent tactics), after all. Sure, you don't get to take their stuff, but at least you're alive. The bottom line is that some opponents will simply be too tough for you to ever beat in a straight-up melee slugfest, no matter what feats or items or spells you have at your disposal, so you can either get used to finding other ways to bypass those obstacles, or you can get comfortable with the idea of your PC getting killed. A lot. Don't fight unless it's basically unavoidable, and if the rest of the party complains, tell them they're free to step into your role as the two-round speedbump standing between the horrible monsters and the delicate back row any time they feel like it.
You might also try to find ways to make better use of the terrain. Sometimes it just takes the minor pressure of asking to get a GM to put fights somewhere other than on flat, open terrain; if you've got feats or items or skills that help you be more mobile than the bad guys, being able to actually use that mobility to your advantage can make a big difference.
I'm also a fan of two-weapon fighting for rogues; more attacks = more sneak attacks, and that's always a good thing. Of course, you'd have to forgo the use of a shield, but at worst that just means that you've got another combat option at your disposal, and that's hardly a bad thing.
--
seriously, though, you're doing almost as well as any character can in that position
ryan
But honestly, you're doing a fantastic job at this already. I mean, an AC of 28 and the ability to deal out some actual damage even when you're not getting a sneak attack? You should be damn proud of your work so far. You're already using feints to get the sneak attack in even though no one's there to flank with you, and it sounds like you have a nice collection of items to back yourself up with. So far, you're doing great.
But I can see why the hit point situation would be becoming more and more of a problem as y'all gain levels; you're starting to hit the "glass ninja" stage of rogue/fighters, where your AC is high enough that the only things which can regularly hit you just happen to be the bad guys who can do enough damage to kill you in just a few rounds. And at that point, your melee career starts to look a bit tenuous.
So first of all, you really need to start consistently using buffing spells and/or items. Patryn of Elvenshae's absolutely right about getting yourself a miss chance: trust me, you'll be amazed at how much difference even a 20% miss chance will make in terms of your survivability. Get friendly spellcasters to buff you, get potions and items that let you buff yourself, and if you've got the Use Magic Device chops to use 'em, get scrolls or wands, too.
Step two is something that I'm sure you're already doing, but could probably stand to emphasize more: avoid fights whenever possible. The sneaky and social solutions to problems get you just as much experience as fighting would (assuming your GM doesn't have some kind of unnatural prejudice against nonviolent tactics), after all. Sure, you don't get to take their stuff, but at least you're alive. The bottom line is that some opponents will simply be too tough for you to ever beat in a straight-up melee slugfest, no matter what feats or items or spells you have at your disposal, so you can either get used to finding other ways to bypass those obstacles, or you can get comfortable with the idea of your PC getting killed. A lot. Don't fight unless it's basically unavoidable, and if the rest of the party complains, tell them they're free to step into your role as the two-round speedbump standing between the horrible monsters and the delicate back row any time they feel like it.
You might also try to find ways to make better use of the terrain. Sometimes it just takes the minor pressure of asking to get a GM to put fights somewhere other than on flat, open terrain; if you've got feats or items or skills that help you be more mobile than the bad guys, being able to actually use that mobility to your advantage can make a big difference.
I'm also a fan of two-weapon fighting for rogues; more attacks = more sneak attacks, and that's always a good thing. Of course, you'd have to forgo the use of a shield, but at worst that just means that you've got another combat option at your disposal, and that's hardly a bad thing.
--
seriously, though, you're doing almost as well as any character can in that position
ryan
Lord Morte
First Post
Not sure on the legality of this under RAW, but I couldn't find anything saying it couldn't be done. Try getting a wand of shield and the greataxe. And Improved Toughness when you secure another feat.Caspian Marqine said:
BTW what is your cohort? and are you getting any followers from the Leadership feat?
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I'm in the same campaign.
A clanking cleric, and a wizard with no stealth skills. The monk is a halfling, so he's slow, and he's got a very low Dex (for a halfling), so we can't count on his Tumble just yet.
They're elven archers. I've only seen them once. Elves don't make good meatshields, except in FR novels.
MeiRen said:
A clanking cleric, and a wizard with no stealth skills. The monk is a halfling, so he's slow, and he's got a very low Dex (for a halfling), so we can't count on his Tumble just yet.
Morte said:
They're elven archers. I've only seen them once. Elves don't make good meatshields, except in FR novels.
Caspian Marqine
First Post
Yeah, Sneaking isn't entirely an option. GM relies on one or two large combat encounters every combat session we get, which is every other session I suppose.
Heh, well technically they're elven fighter/thieves just like me, but they're not around right now. I suppose right now my cohort is my new halfling betrothed...
Yeah, I'll explain that later.
Jonathan
Heh, well technically they're elven fighter/thieves just like me, but they're not around right now. I suppose right now my cohort is my new halfling betrothed...
Yeah, I'll explain that later.
Jonathan
Caspian Marqine
First Post
oops
Last edited:
The Amazing Dingo
First Post
I'm sure someone can help me out here, but there is a Feat in Complete Warrior that gives an extra hit point per level with a prereq of only a +2 Fortitude Save. That can definately be an advantage for you in terms of Hit Points.
And a 28 AX at level 6 (if I remember the information from earlier in the thread) is amazing. Sure the DM is letting a few things slide, but at that level it should be keeping you pretty safe from 90% of the hits.
And a 28 AX at level 6 (if I remember the information from earlier in the thread) is amazing. Sure the DM is letting a few things slide, but at that level it should be keeping you pretty safe from 90% of the hits.
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