Rogue sneak attack/two weapons

[replicant2]

Hi everyone, what is the official rule for a two-weapon wielding rogue? Does he get sneak attack damage to both weapons when fighting two-handed? Or is it just the primary attack? And can anyone provide a reference in the Players Handbook or elsewhere?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Both weapons.

The rule you are looking for is in the Sneak Attack description. You may apply your sneak attack damage "any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

If you are able to make (and hit with!) one attack that meets those conditions, then you apply your sneak attack once. If you are able to make (and hit with) 300 attacks that meet those conditions, then you apply your sneak attack 300 times.

There are no limits other than the number of attacks you can make, and the number of times your opponent is vulnerable.

 

[replicant2]

Both weapons.

The rule you are looking for is in the Sneak Attack description. You may apply your sneak attack damage "any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

If you are able to make (and hit with!) one attack that meets those conditions, then you apply your sneak attack once. If you are able to make (and hit with) 300 attacks that meet those conditions, then you apply your sneak attack 300 times.

There are no limits other than the number of attacks you can make, and the number of times your opponent is vulnerable.

That was my impression as well, though our DM interpreted the rule as just the primary attack. I hope to convince him otherwise, but let me ask: Do you think sneak attack damage with two weapons is unbalancing?

 

[shilsen]

That was my impression as well, though our DM interpreted the rule as just the primary attack. I hope to convince him otherwise, but let me ask: Do you think sneak attack damage with two weapons is unbalancing?

Not at all. Lots of DMs who haven't seen it in play have a knee-jerk reaction to the rogue getting sneak attack on every attack, but in play it doesn't come close to unbalancing.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That was my impression as well, though our DM interpreted the rule as just the primary attack. I hope to convince him otherwise, but let me ask: Do you think sneak attack damage with two weapons is unbalancing?

Yeah, your DM was in error. Hopefully you can convince him of the right way to interpret these rules.

As for whether or not it's balanced, it is.

In order to gain a large number of attacks with a large sneak attack bonus, you need:

1. A significant chain of feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF, PTWF) with significant prereqs
2. A large number of rogue levels

Together, those mean that you'll have, generally speaking, few feats to put into other character abilities and poor survivability. In other words, you'll be remarkably specialized in doing one thing very well, but you won't have the AC or HP to stand up to most bruiser monsters' full attacks.

There's also a large number of foes who won't be fazed by your sneak attacks at all: undead, oozes, elementals, constructs, etc.

Taken together, full sneak attacks on multiple-weapon fighting is balanced.

 

[BSF]

It isn't unbalanced at all. It works pretty well overall. A good group of players can setup the flanking conditions fairly effectively. But at some point the rogue will get smacked. There are many, many ways to eliminate the sneak attack damage.

Patryn has already mentioned several. Encourage your DM to ask around in the online forums. While impressive, sneak attack is hardly the unbalancing factor it initially appears to be.

 

[kenobi65]

Note that the answer to your original question can vary, depending on the circumstances under which the rogue is gaining the ability to sneak attack.

If the defender is flat-footed, or flanked, that condition doesn't change over the course of the rogue's multiple attacks, and all of them are sneak attacks.

However, if the defender doesn't get his Dex bonus versus the rogue because of some condition that changes (e.g., the rogue is using invisibility, and that effect goes away after the first attack), then only attacks that occurred before the change in condition get the sneak attack bonus.

 

[dcollins]

3.0 FAQ p. 9:

I don’t see any limit on the number of sneak attacks a rogue
can make in a round. Suppose a high-level rogue is hiding.
Two villains walk within 5 feet of her. Can the rogue use an
attack of opportunity as a sneak attack and then, assuming
she gets initiative, make as many sneak attacks as she has
attacks? Can she sneak attack each of the villains? What if
the rogue has a bow? If she has Rapid Shot, does this
increase the number of sneak attacks she can make?

A rogue deals extra damage with a sneak attack anytime the
target is denied Dexterity bonus to Armor Class or anytime the
rogue flanks the target, no matter how many attacks the rogue
makes. These conditions are not likely to occur during an attack
of opportunity, but if they do (such as when the rogue is
unseen), the rogue gets her sneak attack bonus damage. The
same holds true for ranged weapons (but see the next question),
provided that the rogue is within 30 feet of her target. Note that
sneak attacks are never possible when the rogue cannot see her
target.

 

[cmanos]

That was my impression as well, though our DM interpreted the rule as just the primary attack. I hope to convince him otherwise, but let me ask: Do you think sneak attack damage with two weapons is unbalancing?

Do you think sneak attack with a BAB >+5 is unbalancing? That would allow a rogue using one weapon to attack twice. He'd get the bonus both times. I'd assume the same would go for TWF.

 

[Patlin]

A TWF rogue does do a ton of damage under the right circumstances, but wait till you face a bunch of undead, constructs, oozes, etc. The fighter will get his turn in the sun, have no fear.