TSR Running list of potential problematic issues in TSR era DnD

[reelo]

(...) I would have had it as an African warrior in traditional dress. To show more diversity not just with the ethnicity of the character, but in the culture as well.

The question is: WHAT traditional dress? Traditional "African"? People in Zimbabwe, or Cameroon, or Burkina Faso, or Congo, or Mali don't all dress the same!

 

[Parmandur]

We use alignment in our 5e and now Cypher game. If you make it descriptive instead of prescriptive it works really well, especially if your planar structure uses the Great Wheel or if you are playing Planescape. For me it can give a general idea of how a monster or NPC might act in moral or ethical situations, as well as let certain spells we use like Detect Alignment work on extra-planar entities or undead. Hopefully it doesn't make me an evil 50 year old bigot to have races in my games have general alignments. It is, after all, a game and not real life. Besides, it's been a while since I saw a gobbo or drow running around IRL.

I think the alignment grid is useful as a shorthand for acting notes which is why it has had such a long life in the game. Looking at an NPC and seeing "OK, this guy is Lawful Evil. If I were Lawful Evil with a high charisma and low intelligence, how would I respond to what the PCs are saying...?" is helpful. Casting an entire species of rational beings a certain way because of a two letter categorization...not helpful, and actively harmful.

As metaphysics, it's ridiculous, but I love the 5E approach.

 

[Gradine]

@Sacrosanct

Advice: You might get more light than heat if you re-start the thread and do the following...

1. Designate it a "+" thread.

2. Make an explicit note that you design OSR products, and you want to make sure they are inclusive.

3. Request specific input as to common pitfalls that TSR-era products had.

I know that you did this, with your disclaimers, but by making it a "+" thread and just having one specific, bolded, disclaimer at the beginning (something like, "This is just for feedback to design inclusive old school emulations ... if you don't have something positive to add, please respect the "+" tag and do not participate.") you might have a more productive conversation?

This was my first thought too. But then, as my own recent "+" thread proved... well, to misquote a certain post-credits character, "threadcrappers gonna threadcrap"

 

[Sacrosanct]

There is an issue with this? really? I mean Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Atenism, even some "pagan" religions are monotheistic. Is it no longer acceptable to be a monotheistic?

The issue isn’t with having monotheism in D&D. You completely misread that comment. The problem is ONLY having monotheism depicted.

Why is it whenever people talk about adding inclusivity, there’s always people who immediately act like you’re taking away their representation? There are several posts like that in this thread. It’s not true. Stop using strawmen to defend lack of inclusivity in the game. You’ve made similar comments in other threads.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The question is: WHAT traditional dress? Traditional "African"? People in Zimbabwe, or Cameroon, or Burkina Faso, or Congo, or Mali don't all dress the same!

Exactly. That’s the point. There are many different African cultures, and NONE of them are being represented. We took a black man and put him in European style armor and dress.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I see your point, but... if you depict a XYZ warrior wearing XYZ traditional dress... while fighting an undead monstrosity, you'd need to make sure that mechanically, the XYZ dress has the same mechanical protection than the full plate. Because if there is a difference, wearing anything except than the best available armor in the picture makes the XYZ warrior look less advanced, which is also something you'd want to avoid.

When I look at the second picture, I see people who lack any metalworking technology to make armor, fighting with an obsidian-incrusted wooden club instead of more modern weapons... It evokes stone age fighters. So unless the macuahuitl has the same stats as a greatsword and the traditional dress is worth a steel armor, beware of unwantingly reinforcing stereotype of "meso-americans = less advanced".


BTW, both pictures are great art.

If only D&D had something like magical armor....

If this is not a 1E commision. You have cheesecake in the second pic. And every one is white.

They are Mesoamerican. Not white. In traditional dress and weapons. By a Mesoamerican artist.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Nothing wrong with that - the modern analogy is there being a whole league of teams and yet you only cheer for one.

EDIT to add: and the reason a cleric only worships one deity is because that's the deity who provides her with her spells every day!

I believe that’s the point. Why not have a cleric who gets their powers from multiple gods?

 

[Weiley31]

The problem is ONLY having monotheism depicted.

But if a DM's setting is a world that has or is an established institution where it is Monothesism only, and the entire group is okay with it or what not, how is that a problem as well?

Must DM's bend their setting will? Or is that after the PC's revolt and overthrow the DM with another player?

 

[Dioltach]

I believe that’s the point. Why not have a cleric who gets their powers from multiple gods?

To my mind, it always makes more sense to pray to the god of light for a Light spell, to the god of healing for Cure Light Wounds and so on.

 

[Weiley31]

If only D&D had something like magical armor....

I blame the Kung-Fu monks for their new age lack of armor theology.