Savage Species feat - Fling Enemy

[Pax]

I haven't read the feat; does it actually say that it has a range increment? That doesn't seem like it'd have much point. If you're just throwing your opponent to damage him, you really don't care about a range penalty on your attack roll.

I'd venture to guess that the specified distance is supposed to be the maximum range, not an increment. But, I freely admit that I may have no idea what I'm talking about.

from Savage Species, page 34:
Fling Enemy (general)
You can pick up an opponent and fling it.
Prerequisites: Strength 23, Huge size, Improved grab.
Benefit: You can make a grapple check at a -20 penalty against an opponent at least two size categories smaller than you. If you succeed, on your next action you can use an attack action to fling the held opponent. The range increment for thrown creatures is 120 feet.
A creature may be thrown horizontally or vertically. If thrown vertically, it takes normal falling damage. If thrown horizontally, it takes damage as if it had fallen half the distance thrown (rounded down). For example, if a hurled orc is thrown 170 feer, it takes 8d6 points of damage.
You may also fling the creature at another creature. To do so, make an attack roll at a -4 penalty, with appropriate range penalties, against the target creature. If you hit, both creatures take the amount of damage that the thrown creature would have taken otherwise, as given above.

Man, that's just nasty. Got a flying opponent too high to reach? Grab his ground-pounding buddy ... throw the buddy up at the flyer, smackng them both for damage.

Then laugh as the ground-pounder does just that: pounds the ground, with his face. Hard.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm not checking the math yet, but IIRC huge gives you a x4 weight limit. 25 str normally can lift what about 1000 lbs. So a 25 str huge guy can lift somewhere around 4000 lbs. If its x8 its 8000 pounds. And this is straining to lift type lift, so 2-4 tons of force roughly. Does anyone think that's enough to throw 200lbs 600'. 60' I'm ok with 600' I'm having trouble believing.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Man, that's just nasty. Got a flying opponent too high to reach? Grab his ground-pounding buddy ... throw the buddy up at the flyer, smackng them both for damage.

Then laugh as the ground-pounder does just that: pounds the ground, with his face. Hard.

Am I reading that right and the victim takes damage for the distance thrown??

So if a giant throws you 600' across a plain you take 20d6, if the same giant throws you 20' into a mountain you take 1d6??

That would make no sense.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that flying or levitating creatures are not affected by a Reverse Gravity spell.

At least, they don't fall.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Well, it's bad, but not quite as bad as it seems at first glance:

You can make a grapple check at a -20 penalty against an opponent at least two size categories smaller than you...

So it starts with something less effective than a touch attack. Granted, the high strength and size differene make this easier, but it's still at -20.

...If you succeed, on your next action you can use an attack action to fling the held opponent...

This language implies that it takes a standard action to do the initial grapple check. The "on your next action you can use an attack action" seems to imply that your current action is over. This is much different language than that used when stating what you can do with each attack.

The language could have been better, but that's true for most feats, it seems.

 

[Kusuf ibn Zaid]

I'm not checking the math yet, but IIRC huge gives you a x4 weight limit. 25 str normally can lift what about 1000 lbs. So a 25 str huge guy can lift somewhere around 4000 lbs. If its x8 its 8000 pounds. And this is straining to lift type lift, so 2-4 tons of force roughly. Does anyone think that's enough to throw 200lbs 600'. 60' I'm ok with 600' I'm having trouble believing.

It is not far off. Assuming 2 tons of force, a 220 pound victim, a 20 foot arm length, no air resistance, and an optimal throw for distance, the distance should be about 400 feet.

- Kusuf

PS Edited to correct math error.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Fire Giants are size Huge, as well.

Hmm, not according to my MM. They are size large and facing 5x5. Unless they've been altered somewhere...?

 

[Dr. NRG]

Accepting Shard O' Glase's numbers, which I have to do due to having no books here, it's easier to imagine if you look at it as a proportionality issue.

So, assuming an average medium guy with armor etc. weighs 200 lbs (for easy calculation's sake), we're talking about a factor of (4000/200). This is proportional to a person who can lift 400 pounds throwing an object that weighs 20 lbs, right? A regulation shotput is somewhere in the vicinity of 20 lbs, I believe. The world's record for throwing one is around 100 feet or so (23 meters). These are gross and estimated numbers, and real physics doesn't always fit into a fantasy world, but 600 feet seems like a helluva long ways to throw anything that heavy, even for a super-strong huge creature...

NRG

 

[Kusuf ibn Zaid]

Am I reading that right and the victim takes damage for the distance thrown??

So if a giant throws you 600' across a plain you take 20d6, if the same giant throws you 20' into a mountain you take 1d6??

That would make no sense.

That is how I read it as well. However, I think the assumption is that combat is occuring on a flat plane and spiking the enemy isn't allowed. You can either lob the opponent or throw them straight up. Downward trajectories or trajectories into obstacles aren't covered. (Unless the obstacle is another enemy).

- Kusuf

 

[starwolf]

hmmm.... a lack of physics?

Ok, my physics is really rusty...but I think the feat shows a lack of real world physics. If said giant were to toss the the hapless foe straight up, the victim would not go any where hear the maximum distance straight up.....closer to perhaps half that distance. so rather than taking 600 ft of falling damage said victim would only take 300 ft of falling damage hmmm now that I write this it still comes up to the maximum of 20d6...but that is on a straight up throw......as to maximu lob distance...well if victim starts out 20 to 30 ft above ground (maximum height of giant plus arm reach) then saidd victim is going to hit the ground much sooner. 20 to 30 ft of standard falling damage plus residual force of throw....a lot less than 20d6. Plus unless I'm unconscious you better believe I'm going to wrap myself around that giant's arm like a burr and refuse to let go.

Picture said giant trying to shake me off his arm.