Saving throws one or many?

[Meatboy]

I've been trying hard to create a simple d20 game with fairly static numbers and was wondering how big a change this would be and what thoughts people have on the subject?

 

[HRSegovia]

I think more should be known about the system or the saving throw. In fact, perhaps you could benefit from fleshing out your world before generating a system. This will give you an idea as to what direction you would like to take the game (and it wouldn't hurt to have a friend at the university who is a math major).

For example, the Fortitude, Reflex and Will saving throws were a great idea for the system in which they were designed. The system incorporated in DnD next is very different, but just as effective for the new iteration of DnD, (integrated directly into the character's basic abilities). 1st and Second ed saves focused less on the character's chutspah and moxie, and more on magic's interaction with the class's training. For all things physical, there was system shock.

 

[Meatboy]

Not much to tell really. Its a fantasy heartbreaker I love 3e but I hate needing 900 pages to play it. My time is limited so I need a game that quick to prep, flexible but still has the feeling I want. So I have most of the game made but just hash stuff out on a very sporadic basis. The main gist is classes are static packages that don't increase with level but you can pick feats to give powers or bonuses to your character as you level. Everything is meant to be static I was just thinking of making saving throws a single bonus added to your DEX/CON/WIS for saves instead of tracking 3 separate numbers.

 

[HRSegovia]

Perhaps, then, you should consider the upcoming D&D Next (5e) rules. It seems to be going the direction you want - and getting a head start now means you'll be ahead of the curve when it gets released. The system is buggy but headed in the right direction and fairly streamlined.

As far as saves go, each class gets two saves. Rangers, for example, get saves to Dex and Wis. This is not to say that that cannot make Str, Con, Int, and Cha saving throws, but they get to add their proficiency bonus to Dex and Wis. The proficiency bonus is a base bonus added to all things with which they are proficient such as weapons for attacks, and skills for skill checks. Even skills fall under this line of thought. There is no more skills list per-se, but a list of skill like actions (yes, they're skills) that fall under each attribute to which the proficiency bonus is added if they are proficient in it (kinda like going back to 2nd ed proficiencies before 3rd ed skills).

Let's look at the Level 1 Fighter with a Commoner background (we'll talk backgrounds in a little bit) - and keep in mind this isn't everything a fighter gets, we're just talking proficiencies:

Armor: All armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: Mounts (land)
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose one skill from Acrobatics, Athletics, or Intimidation.

Then he picks a background (for a modular "I don't care, this is good enough" player, or create one by picking 3 proficiencies and fill three more slots using languages or skills. Here's the commoner sample:

Skills:Animal Handling, Athletics, Survival (3 skills, no languages)
Tools: Artisan’s tools, gaming set, mounts (land) (3 proficiencies)

To all of these he adds his base 1st level Proficiency bonus of +1 which levels up (very slightly) as you do: +2 @ Lvl3, +3 @ Lvl7, +4 @ Lvl11, +5 @ Lvl15, and +6 @ Lvl19.

That is IT.

Based on their class, every 4 levels or so (more often for fighters which get a total of 7), the player may choose between an Ability Increase (2 to one Ability or 1 to 2 Abilities - none may be raised above 20) or a Feat (which are less like the Feats in 3rd Ed and more like a collection of like abilities with a focus). And keep in mind, we're only discussing Proficiencies and Feats since these are the topics you discussed. There are more things the characters get, but they do not convolute things, only flavor or focus the character such as traits, path, racial features and class features:

Feat Example for Fighter:

Great Weapon Master
You can let the momentum from a deadly attack carry your weapon into another foe. You gain the following benefits:
• You gain proficiency with heavy martial weapons.
• Once per turn when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one additional melee attack as part of the same action.
• When you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon, you can take a –5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice one additional time, add your Strength modifier, and add the total to the attack’s normal damage.

It takes a half-hour or less to create a character and literally takes 2 minutes or less to level up a character.

 

[HRSegovia]

As far as flexibility, The DM has a great tool to use as opposed to searching 900 pages to figure things out: Advantage/Disadvantage

Advantage/Disadvantage is a generic tool to assist in unforseen outcomes (such as a character breaking their leg and how to resolve their actions in such a position).

You can give a player advantage for certain situations not covered and to whichever rolls you like, or in the matter above, I gave the player disadvantage to all checks involving strength and dexterity.

Advantage = Roll 2d20 and take the highest.
Disadvantage = Roll 2d20 and take the lowest.

 

[Meatboy]

Yeah I like where 5e is headed and have the last packet (only looked at it briefly though). My own thing is meant to be even simpler though. No numbers inherently go up with level, a change I've made recently as I had it that some numbers went up. No skills just stat bonuses but each class has a Prime Attribute that grants bonuses when you try to attempt something and you can choose a Prime when you make a character. Thieves gain bonuses to skill rolls. No weapon or armor proficiencies, though there is a system that allows classes to have fighting styles that modifier how your weapons work. Lots of things to minimize book keeping and number changes.

 

[HRSegovia]

I still don't see why you couldn't adopt the Save system and just apply a moderated bonus to a selected Ability based on class (Perhaps the Prime Requisite - to use the old 1st ed term) that does not level up.

 

[Meatboy]

I have up to this point been using the 3e fort/ref/will save system I was just recently tossing around the idea of ditching 3 separate bonuses and just going with one which is then modified by an attribute based on the situation. Very little changes in play there is just one number on the character sheet instead of 3.