SCAG Thread

[Burticusb]

We can make suggestions - but all rulings must be approved by WotC. We have some autonomy when it comes to writing articles (although articles which introduce new rules or character options, even backgrounds - must be approved). We also have some autonomy regarding FAQs which clarify existing rules. FAQs which introduce new rules must also be approved.

The SCAG amendments page for example - would likely have been written by the admins/RCs and then approved by WotC. If it wasn't approved, they would have had to make adjustments until it was. It was WotC who wanted aarakocra banned. I expect winged tieflings were included in the suggested ruling by U.S. As the admins would have assumed the same restriction applied (supposition on my part as I had little to do with that particular ruling as it was above my pay grade lol).

Fair enough... well, I guess that leads me to the question, is this something the AL Admins would feel strongly enough to "suggest"?

If not, then we should all just move on with our lives and let this thing go... I'm not above that.

That is not intended as a "salty" comment, just an acknowledgment that it may not matter what we discuss here.

I just feel that it is a little less inclusive than what WotC is trying to target to draw more fans into this hobby.

I'm not upset, with the ruling, but I do feel strongly that it is indeed heading in the wrong direction... Also I feel that right now, we still have time to right this ship, before she has sailed beyond reproach...

 

[kalani]

The admins have stated that there are no plans to revisit or alter the story origin mechanic at this time. However, all feedback is forwarded by the admins to WotC (including approval, disproval and suggestions of alternate rules to story origins). With that being said - the admins have stated repeatedly that when they give feedback on X it only counts as a single source of feedback (even if the admins say a dozen people gave this feedback). As such, we recommend that if you feel strongly about anything, don't just tell us: Please also contact CustServ and give them
The feedback as well. WotC tracks each and every piece of feedback CS gets. As such, if you want your voice truly heard, vote with your voice by contacting them directly. The more peeps who give feedback on X, the more likely it will be revisited

 

[StinkyEttin]

As Kalani said, there are no plans to revisit the story origins rule. We were fortunate in that most of what we wanted was implemented, but that isn't always the case.

In response to an earlier comment (can't remember who said it as I didn't want to sift through 25+ pages of comments), saying that there has been "zero explanation" or there is "zero reason" why the rule exists is not really accurate. While there may be zero explanation or reason that suits you, that is wholly different.

In a nutshell, story origin (and the attached selection of an allowed rules resource) accomplishes three things.

1) It presents a proactive approach to rules bloat. This is something that has plagued the game and the Organized Play program for decades. With each new product that is released, the manner in which the contents therein synergize with one another changes drastically. Just because it hasn't happened yet--or may not happen at all, given Wizard's new release strategy--doesn't mean that it won't happen. In limiting the resources available to a given character, we are able to address rules bloat before it happens. In time, this may change.

2) It addresses the inequity in the story origins to date. From a purely mechanical standpoint, due to the EEPC, there is no reason to choose anything but the Elemental Evil story origin. In forcing the allowed rules choice upon the player, that gap between EE and the other story origins is removed; each story origin has mechanical benefits of its own, and EE is no longer the most advantageous choice. In time, this may change.

3) Story origin lends its own flavor on the characters. EE characters will have a distinct elemental feel while Rage of Demons characters will be a little mad. With only three seasons under our belt, this isn't immediately noticeable, but hopefully, as new seasons come and go, the lines between characters of different story origins will become more distinct. In time, this may change.

So while story origin may not sit well for some folks and while the reasoning behind it may not be apparent to them, there is a purpose behind it. In time, this may change. However, for the time being, it's here to stay.

That said, we read feedback. We consider suggestions. But getting rid of something like story origin is going to need something more than "story origin is bad because I don't get unfettered access to everything" as justification for changing it.

 

[Burticusb]

As Kalani said, there are no plans to revisit the story origins rule. We were fortunate in that most of what we wanted was implemented, but that isn't always the case.

In response to an earlier comment (can't remember who said it as I didn't want to sift through 25+ pages of comments), saying that there has been "zero explanation" or there is "zero reason" why the rule exists is not really accurate. While there may be zero explanation or reason that suits you, that is wholly different.

In a nutshell, story origin (and the attached selection of an allowed rules resource) accomplishes three things.

1) It presents a proactive approach to rules bloat. This is something that has plagued the game and the Organized Play program for decades. With each new product that is released, the manner in which the contents therein synergize with one another changes drastically. Just because it hasn't happened yet--or may not happen at all, given Wizard's new release strategy--doesn't mean that it won't happen. In limiting the resources available to a given character, we are able to address rules bloat before it happens. In time, this may change.

2) It addresses the inequity in the story origins to date. From a purely mechanical standpoint, due to the EEPC, there is no reason to choose anything but the Elemental Evil story origin. In forcing the allowed rules choice upon the player, that gap between EE and the other story origins is removed; each story origin has mechanical benefits of its own, and EE is no longer the most advantageous choice. In time, this may change.

3) Story origin lends its own flavor on the characters. EE characters will have a distinct elemental feel while Rage of Demons characters will be a little mad. With only three seasons under our belt, this isn't immediately noticeable, but hopefully, as new seasons come and go, the lines between characters of different story origins will become more distinct. In time, this may change.

So while story origin may not sit well for some folks and while the reasoning behind it may not be apparent to them, there is a purpose behind it. In time, this may change. However, for the time being, it's here to stay.

That said, we read feedback. We consider suggestions. But getting rid of something like story origin is going to need something more than "story origin is bad because I don't get unfettered access to everything" as justification for changing it.

I'm totally cool with everything you just posted... I just don't believe SCAG should be considered a "story origin" book. I would call it more a "regional origin" book if anything, and therefore it should be available to all story origins...

Everything else makes sense

Anyways, I'll just make a report to WotC's custserv team as Kalani suggested...

 

[StinkyEttin]

Well, if we're going to use it as a region-oriented book, then that excludes the Moonsea--the region where every season of Expeditions play thus far is centered. We opted for inclusion, rather than that option.

 

[Burticusb]

Well, if we're going to use it as a region-oriented book, then that excludes the Moonsea--the region where every season of Expeditions play thus far is centered. We opted for inclusion, rather than that option.

Hmmmm... nope, just because you are from a different region doesn't mean your character couldn't have traveled to the "story origin" location.

I get where you are trying to defend this, but in reality, region books should be allowed in all "story origin" locations. For example Purple Dragon Knight's would likely be from the region near Cormyr... which is awfully close to the Moonsea region.

Your still keeping the the story origin characters with their unique flavor.

How about this, maybe it'll make it feel a little less messy... SCAG and other non-seasonal books could be called just regional books, and not "origin" books... or maybe Forgotten Realms Core books.

I see no reason why there couldn't be Purple Dragon Knights or Dwarven Gutbusters during the "origin" story of Elemental Evil... other than worries on "rules bloat"

Which adding non seasonal books to the rotation of season books only adds to the confusion... I think this would actually simply things more then it would cause rules bloat.

As far as choices of gaps between story origin versus other origins, you are right, there aren't many other "best" choices, but that doesn't mean there won't be.

And to be honest, really, I don't feel there should be any restrictions like this anyways.

These add flavor to the game and creativity... this is not a competitive game and it should not matter if my character has a stronger build than yours.

If that were the case no body would play anything but a Wizard... since they are still over powered...

As I feel this has been discussed enough here, I'm done defending my view, since I know it won't matter here anyways.

I appreciate your view on this StinkyEttin, but this is where I finish this debate, because I am just bored of it really...

I suggest everyone who feels like I do, that these restrictions between story origin and campaign books should be lifted in AL, should go here...

http://wizards.custhelp.com/

And put in a claim, the more we put the more likely that we will be heard.

 

[Burticusb]

Customer Support Ref. #151112-000778

Let's see how many we can get!

 

[StinkyEttin]

Hmmmm... nope, just because you are from a different region doesn't mean your character couldn't have traveled to the "story origin" location.

I get where you are trying to defend this, but in reality, region books should be allowed in all "story origin" locations. For example Purple Dragon Knight's would likely be from the region near Cormyr... which is awfully close to the Moonsea region....

...Let's see how many we can get!

Godspeed on your journey.

 

[CapnZapp]

FWIW, I consider the story origin rule to be fine (considering how it ended in compromise rather than a hard stance).

I believe it a waste of time to try to change it, especially if you want to be able to combine all crunch in one character. That's never gonna fly.

And most gamers will understand that as "reasonable enough" to not contact Wotc about it and thus not supporting you on it.

Ergo, I would advise you to let it go. Choose something else to campaign against.

Especially since you can still use SCAG for an Elemental Evil character! (You just can't choose anything from the EEPG)

Bottom line is, most people will accept the ruling as a reasonable compromise. No, you can't be a Genasi Purple Knight. But to allow that, AL would have had to divide Wotcs books into individual chunks, and detail exactly which chunks that aren't allowed together.

And that I completely understand if they won't touch with a ten foot pole. Not only would it make it incredibly difficult to get a quick understanding, it would also open them up to an avalanche of whining "why can't I use X together with Y when Z is fine"

The line needs to be drawn somewhere (and this you'll never gonna make them budge on). Adding or excluding individual books in their entirety is the only reasonably simple choice.

 

[tila]

Especially since you can still use SCAG for an Elemental Evil character! (You just can't choose anything from the EEPG)

Which means that the Story Origin material is excluded not the SCAG. *shrugs*