scoop: 4e gamma world

[Knightfall]

Which is actually the best way to make the point. If people don't buy the game, the message is "Gamma World failed," and that could be for any number of reasons. If people buy the game but not the cards, the message is "We don't want random rules."

Obviously, not saying people who weren't going to buy GW anyway should suddenly buy it; just saying that, if people were interested except for the random angle, it's still worth getting the game itself without the boosters.

The core game will be worth it just for the Gamma World monsters.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, for the record, if the DM could buy the newest card-deck "supplement" and get a complete kit for a reasonable price, I wouldn't mind this much.

It's the randomized player-purchased powerup boosters that's IMO pretty egregious.

I mean, I don't begrudge anyone else enjoying a game. But it's not a game I would want to play, and it's not a move I'll support with my gaming dollars.

-O

 

[Scribble]

If this is the case, then, to me, the key difference is that the chart doesn't vary in length depending on how much I've spent on the book containing it.

"Pay another $10 to get access to the full chart!" doesn't fly with me.

I get that it flies okay with others, which is fine, but in such a situation I am more likely to say "OR, I could pay NOTHING, and go do something else with my time."

Ummm everytime you buy an expansion book for any system you're "adding to the charts..."

But in the end yeah if its that big an issue to you go buy something g else.

When you tell gamers that they have to buy randomized boosters for your addons, you're telling them "Go screw yourselves, and give us your money while you do so."

Randomized boosters add nothing to the game. Having to fork over cash for a chance to get something doesn't make the game more fun. It's just a cheap and hilariously obvious cash grab.

Screw that.

I think your over reacting here. Some people like collecting things. The randomized card aspect probably will allow them to support a system they woulddnt otherwise have the budget for. Randomized support is better then no support in my opinion. But again if its not your thing don't buy them. Go do something g else and let the people who are excited about the game talk about it.

 

[Hawke]

I just wish we could get some more details form WotC about the random nature & the rarity nature of the game.

While its true I wont buy boosters with my money so it may not affect me, I'd also like to see the risk of different game models pay off for WotC rather than end up a failure if too many resources are placed into the collectible/random nature of the game and it ends up a project in the red leading to a more risk-averse WotC that doesn't provide us with new and different ways to game.

 

[Scribble]

If the core game itself is fun I'd probably be tempted to buy the boosters thinking about it especially if they're in common stores like target (like magic is.) Four bux is cheap for an instant set of new gaming fun.

 

[M.L. Martin]

If the core game itself is fun I'd probably be tempted to buy the boosters thinking about it especially if they're in common stores like target (like magic is.)

WotC has said that they'll be limited to speciality stores; bookstores and other mass market outlets won't get them.

Given that, it seems to me that this must be an experiment and/or an attempt to hook CCG fans.

 

[Nikosandros]

Given that, it seems to me that this must be an experiment and/or an attempt to hook CCG fans.

I've seen this suggested by several people already, but I don't get it. Why should a CCG fan be interested in a game, just because it has a collectible element? The new Gamma World is being sold as a boxed set and from what we know so far, the boosters will just be add-ons to that. Besides, if all the mutations are drawn at random from a common deck, there is no element of deck building whatsoever.

I personally find the experiment angle far more likely. See how the random thing works with a secondary product before trying it with mainstream D&D.

 

[mudbunny]

Well, with respect, I don't think it has anything to do with piracy. It has to to with taking a known business model that has made the company more money then RPGS ever have, and trying to use it to make an RPG more profitable, and bring in a more continuous, longer lasting revenue stream

Seeing how amazingly successful CCGs have been, I honestly cannot fault WotC for the attempt. It is not a moral lapse or anything - it is just a game design we here don't prefer in RPGs.

But then, maybe we aren't the target market. Perhaps they don't expect hard-core RPG players to pick up the cards, and instead are hoping those who play the card games might use this as an excuse to play RPGs...

Another possibility for the booster decks is that it would then be easy for the gamer to tell his non-gamer friends/parents/etc to just go to the store and pick up a couple packs of boosters for me...

Of course, this is all assuming that between now and then, they don't change their minds.

 

[arscott]

I've seen this suggested by several people already, but I don't get it. Why should a CCG fan be interested in a game, just because it has a collectible element? The new Gamma World is being sold as a boxed set and from what we know so far, the boosters will just be add-ons to that. Besides, if all the mutations are drawn at random from a common deck, there is no element of deck building whatsoever.

Exactly. And from the look of things, you'll maybe draw ten cards per session, tops? Buying a pack of randomized cards to help me build 60 card decks that I'll be using multiple games per week is one thing. Buying a pack of randomized cards for a game I won't play more than once per week? when I'm only using a fraction of those cards in each game?

On the other Hand, look at Fantasy Flight Games, and how they deal with their "Living Card Games" $10 gets you a pack of 40 cards (3 copies of each of ten commons, and one copy of each of 10 rares). If Wizards followed that format, they could sell their 120 card set for $60, and I'm betting they'll find more customers that way.

It seems like the big hit of last year in my gaming circle has been Dominion, which is marketed like a boardgame and incorporates Deckbuilding into the game itself. Magic is the only Collectible Game that seems to be going strong--play of the other CCGs has pretty much died out. Even then, I see a lot less limited, and more constructed and vintage. In this economy, people are just less willing to throw away $5 for a few more cards.

I'm all for new business models, but I feel that WotC is really out of touch. They're canceling D&D minis sets, and ditching the Star Wars license--indicators that their collectible miniatures lines aren't doing so hot. Do they really thing collectible power cards will be successful?

 

[M.L. Martin]

I've seen this suggested by several people already, but I don't get it. Why should a CCG fan be interested in a game, just because it has a collectible element?
<SNIP>

I personally find the experiment angle far more likely. See how the random thing works with a secondary product before trying it with mainstream D&D.

I agree. My chain of reasoning was:

1) This must be either an experiment or an attempt to grow the market;
2) If the boosters aren't being sold in mainstream retail outlets, it can't really be an effort to market to casual gamers;
3) Therefore the boosters must be an attempt to attract RPG or CCG fans (the two types of fans who generally frequent specialty stores);
4) Therefore, it is either an experiment (most likely) or an attempt to somehow attract CCG fans (unlikely).

I don't think it's an experiment that's likely to work well based on what we know now, but that's assuming it retains the "buy boosters for better options" and the somewhat adversarial tone suggested in the podcast (where they also describe the deck included in the core set as the "DM's deck", implying that the boosters are for players who want an edge). If it loses that, I could see it working--although given the hostility of a large portion of gamers to randomized packaging, I wouldn't want to bet money on it. It's probably why they're deciding to use Gamma World for this.