scouts and skirmishing

[schporto]

Well, a real world description that may or may not seem to validate the scout's abilities.
Take baseball and football. A hitter standing still can hit the ball fairly acurately, BUT a fly ball is often fairly easy to catch. A quaterback can throw the ball fairly perhaps more accurately then a hitter hits the ball, but tries to get it to a running receiver, while dodging tacklers.
If it is easy to catch (a fly ball) it is easy to avoid.
I just don't feel completely right with the opposite, if it is hard to catch, it is hard to avoid.

I always think of it as those scenes where the big guy is fighting the little guy and keeps saying "Stand still damn you!".
-cpd

 

[Nail]

"I run directly away then blast him." Still tough to describe how this leads to increased damage. ..

As you see, posters here have done the "description" part for you.

Look, Voadam, I know you've got your back up - people have been picking on your reasoning, and you're defensive - the position you are in is understandable.

But take a deep breath, maybe walk away from the computer screen for a few minutes, then come back and look this Scout skirmish ability over again. I think with clearer eyes you'll see it's a perfectly reasonable class, and it's actions can be described within a fantasy setting.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I agree with the threads starter in that I have difficulty seeing how moving around increases the damage one does with an attack (though I can semi-justify it myself).
And I think banning a rule based on the fact that you can't figure out how it works logically with in the game world is fine, it is not a 'crappy' thing to do so. The rules should serve the game not the other way around. Allowing a mechanic in your game that doesn't make sense to you or the player just because it's a mechanic is not a good thing to do.
Now if someone can adequatley explain how the skirmish ability works (which I believe a couple people have done) then I think this issue can be resolved.

 

[Storm Raven]

"He suggested it was because the scout "catches them off guard" when he moves, but an archer being better when he fires on the run just seems too counter to my experiences for it to jibe for me."

He's not "better" his opponents are just less prepared for his attacks.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm making a decision not to allow in a new class that does things that don't make sense and I will have trouble describing. I can describe magic and make sense of it in the context of the game. I can describe feinting. I can describe sneak attacks. I can describe turning. Part of my job as DM is to describe what happens when the PC uses their class powers. I am under no obligation to allow in purely mechanical powers with no descriptions that don't make sense, even if I don't think it is unbalanced.

Your reasoning remains crappy on this score, Dress it up all you want, but a failure of your imagination isn't a very good reason to prohibit a character.

 

[Nail]

Your reasoning remains crappy on this score,....

...and continuing to sling semi-personal attacks are unlikely to work well. Give the guy a break!

Reason and common sense are on your side. Let them work for you.

 

[Thanee]

I'll just point out that from a powergaming perspective, you're not gaining much out of using the skirmish/eldritch blast thing. You'd probably do more damage by putting the levels you're using to get skirmish damage into the warlock class instead.

Like a Gestalt Warlock|Warlock?

Bye
Thanee

 

[SBMC]

Folks I've seen use it end up being annoyed.. because in the end the scout can't do multiple attacks a round (since they moved)... so this is much less useful at higher levels.

Unless ya take manyshot later on...

 

[SBMC]

Yup. No blasting enemies from 60 ft and getting skirmish damage - or 31 ft either

To note - just because you move 30 feet does nto meant that 30 feet is in one direction - you can run all over the place if ya like.

 

[Klaus]

Here's a skirmish example that I *believe* everyone in these forums have seen:

Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring.

Boromir stands his ground, running orcs through with his sword as they get within reach. Waaaay in the back, Lurtz casually nocks an arrow, walks a bit, pulls the string and lets the arrow fly, piercing the mighty warrior (note: walk then shoot). Boromir fights a bit more, as Lurtz take another few steps, lets another arrow fly and once again hits Boromir to far greater effect than most arrows would have (walk, then shoot). The sequence plays out again, and by the time Lurtz gets there, he needs one more shot to finish Boromir off (move, then shoot).

IMHO, Lurtz is a Barbarian/Scout (not subtle enough to be a Rogue).

For an example of melee-oriented skirmish, I point you to Troy and Brad Pitt's Achilles. He moves all over the place, leaving his opponent confused and off-balance (the "spin-to-show-shield" is a nice fluff for the AC bonus).