D&D 5E Selecting the Simplest Sorcerer Solution

[Bupp]

So no one has tried playing a wizard alongside your upgraded sorcerer? Heck, even your three primary spellcasters (cleric, druid and bard) all wanted something with a more melee combat bent, rather than a more traditional "cast-first". Maybe its just coincidence, but I find that interesting. Don't you?

The same player plays the sorcerers in two different games. None of the other players are really interested in being a primary spellcaster. I would like to see it beside a wizard, though.

The 8th level sorcerer did start off as a wizard, but at 3rd level I let him convert to a sorcerer. This was before I changed the sorcerer to spell points. The change was more for play style reasons. He was a new player, and liked playing a blasty mage. The variety of spells and utility spells of a wizard didn't do anything for him, so he went sorcerer. Obviously, he really likes the class, even before my changes.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Following up on the free metamagic, I have some thoughts.

I'm liking the idea that at 3rd level they get to choose one of their metamagic options to not cost sorcery points. As I think through it, while some might be more appealing than others, I can image characters that might pick just about any of them as their free one. For instance, a lightning or poison sorcerer could take Distant Spell and now have a ranged (or better ranged for poison) attack cantrip, in addition to being able to project all their touch spells, which makes for some interesting options. Some people would take Subtle Spell just to better represent a character (one of my friends expressed that he would with a concept he has). Careful and Extended may not be as appealing...but then again, they aren't now. Heightened, Empowered, Quickened, and Twinned would be still be your go to power options. So I don't think the actual cost of the metamagic you get to choose to automatically apply would matter.

I also think that would add the element of fun and meaningful choice, like most classes have. You can't have all of the cool free bonuses, but whichever you take is going to have a huge affect on your character. It would also extend your sorcery points as you wouldn't be using them nearly as often on metamagic.

I do think the ability should upgrade at, say, 14th level, but I haven't figured out how it should upgrade to get the really simple satisfying feeling I'm aiming for.

 

[Horwath]

Sorcerer does not need more spells known. It has enough for that class design.

That is wizards domain.

Sorcerer needs more spell slots and more powerfull spells.

Easiest thing to do to make sorcerer on par with wizard is more sorcery points, cheaper slot buying for sorcery points, faster regaining of sorcery points.

Double the sorcery points, make spells cost equal to spell level(5th level max).

 

[ScuroNotte]

Sorcerer does not need more spells known. It has enough for that class design.

That is wizards domain.

Sorcerer needs more spell slots and more powerfull spells.

Easiest thing to do to make sorcerer on par with wizard is more sorcery points, cheaper slot buying for sorcery points, faster regaining of sorcery points.

Double the sorcery points, make spells cost equal to spell level(5th level max).

Disagree with enough spells known. And it is not a Wizard trait. Clerics and Druids have more spells prepared than Wizards when you account for Domain spells
Sorcerers have the fewest known of all full casters, know less than 1 1/2 caster, and know 2 more than 1/4 casters.
The half and third casters have other core features to rely on. The Sorcerer had spells and Metamagic. More spells are a necessity. I for one find it frustrating and I am disappointed in the way the class is handled.

I unfortunately believe WoTC will never changed the class. Thus relegating me to homebrew versions and never participating in the league (obviously my choice)

 

[ScuroNotte]

Sorcerer does not need more spells known. It has enough for that class design.

That is wizards domain.

Sorcerer needs more spell slots and more powerfull spells.

Easiest thing to do to make sorcerer on par with wizard is more sorcery points, cheaper slot buying for sorcery points, faster regaining of sorcery points.

Double the sorcery points, make spells cost equal to spell level(5th level max).

i forgot, Paladins could also know the same number of spells as a Wizard considering Domain spells . (A half caster)

i think allowing a Sorcerer to know 22 spells as a Bard is fine. Especially when you consider they can't change the spells known until they level up

 

[Raddra]

One issue I have with sorcerers is the lack of short rest bonuses. Most other classes benefit from a short rest, but all a sorcerer gets is their hit dice.

So as opposed to giving the sorcerer more sorcery points to a total, why not the ability to recover some on a short rest? Perhaps equal to their proficiency?

 

[Rynic]

The Sorcerer is built similarly to the Barbarian. A Barbarian's Rages are very few in number, lasting only a minute. However, it has plenty of baked-in stuff.

The Wild Mage has the ability to potentially regain sorcery points and even spell slots with Wild Magic surges (Theoretically you could regain a 6-9th level slot back if you only used them first). The Sorcerer is all about preventing waste (twin/extended/empowered).

I'm currently compiling a spreadsheet of every spell, cross-referenced against meta-magic. I'm finished the Sorcerer spells, moving onto the other classes.

One secret meta-magic + spell combo I discovered is Wall of Stone plus Careful Spell. It allows you to trap enemies while allowing allies to escape automatically.

'If a creature would be surrounded on all
sides by the wall (or the wall and another solid surface),
that creature can make a Dexterity saving throw. On a
success, it can use its reaction to move up to its speed so
that it is no longer enclosed by the wall.'

 

[Rynic]

Compare it to the Barbarian

how do you delete a post that copied twice?

 

[famousringo]

The Sorcerer is built similarly to the Barbarian. A Barbarian's Rages are very few in number, lasting only a minute. However, it has plenty of baked-in stuff.

Sorcerers have very little "baked-in stuff." In fact, they have the most restrictive set of at-will abilities of any class. Minimum HP, minimum armour and weapon proficiency, minimum skill proficiency. They have one more cantrip than the average caster, and that's it.

Some sorcerer subclasses have a lot of at-will abilities, but don't confuse a subclass with the class. The only wild sorcerer ability that doesn't key off long-rest resources is Spell Bombardment.

The Wild Mage has the ability to potentially regain sorcery points and even spell slots with Wild Magic surges (Theoretically you could regain a 6-9th level slot back if you only used them first).

Unless your DM is generous enough to allow a surge on pretty much every spellcast, the chances of this are so remote as to be inconsequential. The only reliable outcome of wild surges is getting to use Tides of Chaos more.

The Sorcerer is all about preventing waste (twin/extended/empowered).

On the contrary, the sorcerer is about output, not efficiency. It can expend long rest resources faster than any other class. For example, if you Twin a Haste spell. While it's up, it's twice as effective as a wizard's Haste spell. That's nice. But if the fight ends next round or if you lose concentration, you've paid the equivalent of two 3rd level slots and suffer twice the Haste dump for very little gain. Powerful when it works, especially wasteful when it doesn't.

The wizard (also the land druid) is the one who prevents waste, through one of the best ritual magic features in the game and by being better able to tailor his spells to the situation thanks to a broader spell selection. A wizard is more likely able to target the precise weak save, or area, or damage type while the sorcerer has to go with the best fit (if any of his spells fit) and decide whether or not to turn his spell up to 11.

I'm currently compiling a spreadsheet of every spell, cross-referenced against meta-magic. I'm finished the Sorcerer spells, moving onto the other classes.

Smart move. Metamagic shapes a sorcerer's theme and how it plays more than the subclass, IMO.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm still working on revising the free meta-magic concept to get it to feel right. Here are some current thoughts.

At 3rd level, you choose one of your meta-magics, and it costs 1 less sorcery point to use it. Then at 14th level, you choose another known meta-magic, and that one costs 3 less sorcery points to use it.

The benefit of this is that, while you can pick any meta-magic from the start, this is going to encourage you to start with one of the 1 point ones, because it will be free. Then it will encourage you to get one of the more expensive ones later. It also doesn't completely eliminate the cost of higher level Twinned Spells.

It feels a little messier than I'd like, which is why I'm still working on it.

I'm currently compiling a spreadsheet of every spell, cross-referenced against meta-magic. I'm finished the Sorcerer spells, moving onto the other classes.

Cool, let us know when you get it.