D&D 5E Sell my Party on a Cleric

[Paul Farquhar]

I think this is one of my groups primary complaints. Any build they think of where the cleric is "competent" always involves these spells, so even if you have various domains playing a cleric devolves into casting these spells over and over again.

Most casters cast the same few spells over and over again. And fighters hit the enemy with the same pointy stick over and over again.

It sounds like your group defines "competent" as "more damage than everyone else". Really, I would just let them play whatever flavour of the month DPS builds they like, or find some more interesting players.

 

[Ancalagon]

5e is nice because a cleric is not "needed". However, if you do want to play one, you have a very flexible class and can be very impactful on the battlefield.

 

[kerbarian]

I'm not crazy about most clerics, but as others have mentioned the Light domain is great. You get Fireball, but also Radiance of the Dawn (channel divinity) which is a great AoE attack 1 or 2 times per short rest and isn't a spell so you can lead off with it while also casting Spiritual Weapon.

So you're a strong AoE blaster with some attacks that refresh on a short rest, and you also have quite solid sustained damage with Spiritual Weapon + Toll the Dead + Potent Spellcasting. Upcasting Spiritual Weapon is especially strong for sustained damage at higher levels. Warding Flare is also a great defensive utility. Not as strong as Shield, but it's free and can eventually protect others.

Then on top of that you get healing (of course) but also the entire cleric spell list as a utility kit. Being able to pull out spells like Zone of Truth, Locate Object, Sending, Water Walk, etc. after any long rest is amazing in lots of non-combat, problem-solving situations.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

If they don't want to play a cleric that's fine. The party will be fine without.

But, in terms of what makes them actually good in 5e I would say that it is:

1. They get the most spells prepared because they get as many as a Druid or Wizard and then also get a bunch of Domain spells. The Domain spells tend to be a mixed bag, but there's always something good. Other than a Wizard who really heavily invested in learning ritual spells, or some crazy multiclass, they will have the most spell options at the ready at any time.

2. Half the classes can heal, but clerics are still the one stop shop for the whole panoply of restorative magics. Lesser restoration, greater restoration, remove curse, and all sorts of dead raising. These are where being a prepared spellcaster really shines as they are spells which are probably not needed on a regular basis but are periodically of vital importance. If the group doesn't have a cleric it is fairly likely that at some point they will get some disease, curse, petrification, or whatever that nobody has access to the spell to fix. This is a good opportunity for the DM to send them questing after someone who can solve the problem, so, once again, maybe it's not so bad if none of them want to be the Cleric.

3. With revivify they can raise the dead at level 5. Everyone else who can raise the dead (some subclasses excepted) needs to wait until level 9. That's a substantial space in the levels where people actually play a lot where Clerics still have a serious monopoly.

4. Your group is right that Paladins and Bards are both pretty awesome in 5e, but neither is quite a replacement for the Cleric. Paladins know similar spells to Clerics, but Paladin spell progression is just too slow to compete. Bards have access to some great Cleric spells, but many of the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spells they get are mismatched to someone who isn't a prepared spell caster. Occasionally great, but day to day unnecessary spells like Zone of Truth or Speak with Dead are probably not going to make the Bard cut unless they are particularly thematic to the character, whereas any Cleric might choose to prepare them on a day where they seem likely to be useful, and potentially really important things like Greater Restoration or Raise Dead feel like a tax on the Bard's spells known that they pay for not having someone else in the party to handle them.

 

[Ancalagon]

If they don't want to play a cleric that's fine. The party will be fine without.

But, in terms of what makes them actually good in 5e I would say that it is:

1. They get the most spells prepared because they get as many as a Druid or Wizard and then also get a bunch of Domain spells. The Domain spells tend to be a mixed bag, but there's always something good. Other than a Wizard who really heavily invested in learning ritual spells, or some crazy multiclass, they will have the most spell options at the ready at any time.

2. Half the classes can heal, but clerics are still the one stop shop for the whole panoply of restorative magics. Lesser restoration, greater restoration, remove curse, and all sorts of dead raising. These are where being a prepared spellcaster really shines as they are spells which are probably not needed on a regular basis but are periodically of vital importance. If the group doesn't have a cleric it is fairly likely that at some point they will get some disease, curse, petrification, or whatever that nobody has access to the spell to fix. This is a good opportunity for the DM to send them questing after someone who can solve the problem, so, once again, maybe it's not so bad if none of them want to be the Cleric.

3. With revivify they can raise the dead at level 5. Everyone else who can raise the dead (some subclasses excepted) needs to wait until level 9. That's a substantial space in the levels where people actually play a lot where Clerics still have a serious monopoly.

4. Your group is right that Paladins and Bards are both pretty awesome in 5e, but neither is quite a replacement for the Cleric. Paladins know similar spells to Clerics, but Paladin spell progression is just too slow to compete. Bards have access to some great Cleric spells, but many of the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spells they get are mismatched to someone who isn't a prepared spell caster. Occasionally great, but day to day unnecessary spells like Zone of Truth or Speak with Dead are probably not going to make the Bard cut unless they are particularly thematic to the character, whereas any Cleric might choose to prepare them on a day where they seem likely to be useful, and potentially really important things like Greater Restoration or Raise Dead feel like a tax on the Bard's spells know that they pay for not having someone else in the party to handle them.

I agree with all that you said.
But on top of that, the cleric has some fun spells. Spiritual guardian is cliche yes, but it is a lot of fun. Hold person on someone(s)? That's fun. Bless? it's a bit more fun in 5e because it gives a 1d4 (not just a measly +1...). Silence? That can be a lot of fun, great for stealth, vs enemy casters...

 

[commandercrud]

Have an NPC cleric accompany the party for a short time. Let them witness how awesome a cleric is.

 

[Undrave]

I am sure there are many people on the board who would disagree with my group's notions, so tell me where they went wrong, help me make the cleric look interesting and cool to play.

This is a good point, and I should clarify my position a little better. My group doesn't just see the cleric as "eh not the class I want to play", they see it as "this is a flaw in 5e....its a bad class that is a bad design".

So in some ways showing them the cleric is good is in the same breath saying "this is not a flaw in the game".

Have someone play a light cleric or a forge cleric. Forge clerics are hilarious if the DM allows you to craft silver, gold, or platinum as trade goods.

Otherwise, your group's complaints are mostly right. Overall the cleric's design is fairly dull and the spell list (along with the druid's) is very lackluster. My biggest complaint remains that War clerics don't get Extra Attack at 8th. I think the level 8 ability for clerics was very lazily designed in particular. That and the destroy undead progression is uninteresting, and easily makes Cleric 14 one of the worst levels in the game.

I'm with Bacon Bits. I think the 5e Cleric is incredibly boring. It's functional, so it's not really 'bad', even optimizable, but not really exciting to play one.

I loved the 4e Cleric but I just can't get interested in the 5e one. That said I don't find any of the full casters particularly interesting either

I want to play a solid support class but the 5e Cleric only support (in combat, Guidance is still pretty good even if generic) by using spell slots so on a round-per-round basis it's really dull. And the way your melee cleric can keep up until level 5 where you then have to rely on your spells until level 8, just feels wrong. Maybe if Clerics had their own version of the SCAG Melee Cantrips it wouldn't be so janky of a class?

 

[Guest User]

Arcane clerics make an exceptional Booming Blade Melee-ist.
Add in a Hexblade level for HBC synergy with Magic Missile.
Arcane Mastery nets you Magic Jar or Contigency, and Simulacrum....the classic T3/T4 mayhem effects.

Medium Armor + Shield, d8 HP, A solid SR Banishment option, plus Full Cleric spell casting with the option to poach from the Wizard list, and Spell Breaker!

I feel "the vapors" coming on, just typing it.....I DM'd a campaign then went up to 17th level with an Arcane Cleric and Paladins....it easily held it's own.