Sense Motive: How do you do it?

[Scott DeWar]

I have seen one dm have a list of prerolled mumbers by each player and cross them off as they get used. If a mod is needed to be known, then what another DM does that works is he asks to see all of the character sheets, nefer sayng exactly what he wants to see or whose specificly he want so see. combine the two and no one knows what the dm is up to

 

[darjr]

Unless the PC specifically states that he is spending time to sense motive and tells me a bit of what he's doing then I will not let on that it might be appropriate. I'll still roll the sense motive for them. Also I'll roll for them if I think they should have a chance to sense the motives of who they are talking to.

I like to rp the encounter and I think this keeps things going smoothly. I also think it's cool to 'interupt' the NPC and say, "He's lying, by the way" and then continue. Though I do admit that sometimes I don't roll at all. Either their sense motive is so much better or worse than the NPC's bluff that they just win or will never have a clue.

Sometimes it's just something the players need to know. That smacks of railroading to me so I rarely do that or run games where such is required.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

His PCs don't try to bluff the NPCs. We are unusually honest and like to tell the NPCs are thoughts and plans. In our defense we aren't very smart.

LOL ok. Me, I kinda like bluffing the NPCs = And the more outrageous, the better

But seriously, as long as it's equal it's fair.

Unless the PC specifically states that he is spending time to sense motive and tells me a bit of what he's doing then I will not let on that it might be appropriate. I'll still roll the sense motive for them. Also I'll roll for them if I think they should have a chance to sense the motives of who they are talking to.

I like to rp the encounter and I think this keeps things going smoothly. I also think it's cool to 'interupt' the NPC and say, "He's lying, by the way" and then continue. Though I do admit that sometimes I don't roll at all. Either their sense motive is so much better or worse than the NPC's bluff that they just win or will never have a clue.

Sometimes it's just something the players need to know. That smacks of railroading to me so I rarely do that or run games where such is required.

I'm kinda confused here.. do you agree with me or did you forget some negatives here and there?

 

[darjr]

Just putting my 2 cents in. I want to try to keep the sense motive rolls on my side of the screen. I do not want to end up in a place where the ;ayer's are constantly spamming that check. I also want to reward the players when the obvious answer is that they would know the NPC is lying to them. Or vice-versa.

 

[Jhaelen]

Just out of curiosity, do you also just roll Sense Motive for your NPCs ONLY if they suspect something, or whenever the PCs try to Bluff them?

If an pc actually makes a Bluff roll, then the 'defending' pc also gets to roll a Sense Motive check. Unless the opposing party has reason to suspect something (or is naturally paranoid), neither check is rolled.

So, yes, I guess, investing in Bluff isn't as useful in my game as it would be in a game that resolves character interaction solely through skill checks. Imho, Bluff is reserved for the outrageous stuff; a well-disguised, subtle lie will usually not require a roll (barring superior knowledge).

Sense Motive is more useful in my game, since it allows you to get a hunch about others, regardless if they're trying to bluff you or not, i.e. you may pick up hints about their character or motivations (sic!) with a good roll.

 

[ruemere]

Sense Motive is an active skill - you need to declare its use to be able to benefit.

I usually call for a roll from PC side, and then I keep the result as a reference for a duration of the scene. Depending on the circumstances, final result may be adjusted by secret modifiers.

For example, you are trying to gauge whether a group of people is trustworthy. During the scene, a new person joins the group - someone you're very familiar with. And so, while the base DC is 20 (the Hunch), the result is likely to be adjusted in favor of a player character in a middle of the scene, possibly resulting in new information.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Friend of the Dork]

If an pc actually makes a Bluff roll, then the 'defending' pc also gets to roll a Sense Motive check. Unless the opposing party has reason to suspect something (or is naturally paranoid), neither check is rolled.

So, yes, I guess, investing in Bluff isn't as useful in my game as it would be in a game that resolves character interaction solely through skill checks. Imho, Bluff is reserved for the outrageous stuff; a well-disguised, subtle lie will usually not require a roll (barring superior knowledge).

Sense Motive is more useful in my game, since it allows you to get a hunch about others, regardless if they're trying to bluff you or not, i.e. you may pick up hints about their character or motivations (sic!) with a good roll.

Who says interaction is based solely through skill checks? While this is a viable option, you can also combine it with roleplaying the conversations. The about lies is that the character in question might have difficulty concealing it, some people are just poor liars. This is generally not represented by acting part (after all, we are just normal people not professional actors), so therefore I think tests may be in order.

A very believable bluff will get a high bonus, will a crappy one will take a high penalty. If the bonus or penalty would be so high the outcome is pretty much guarenteed, there would be no need to roll.

The active use of Sense Motive to get a hunch is already covered in the rules.

Sense Motive is an active skill - you need to declare its use to be able to benefit.

I usually call for a roll from PC side, and then I keep the result as a reference for a duration of the scene. Depending on the circumstances, final result may be adjusted by secret modifiers.

For example, you are trying to gauge whether a group of people is trustworthy. During the scene, a new person joins the group - someone you're very familiar with. And so, while the base DC is 20 (the Hunch), the result is likely to be adjusted in favor of a player character in a middle of the scene, possibly resulting in new information.

Regards,
Ruemere

MM, no. Sense motive is a REactive skill to oppose other's bluff checks. There is also an active element in the Hunch use, against a set DC.

Do you also require players to state "I'm looking behind the door to see if someone is hiding" in order to get a Perception test to see the hiding enemy?

 

[IronWolf]

LOL ok. Me, I kinda like bluffing the NPCs = And the more outrageous, the better

It is sort of a running joke in our campaigns. You know how normally it is the BBEG revealing the sinister plot foolishly before they characters get him? In our campaigns it nearly always seems to be the reverse of that. The characters revealing their plans to the wrong person! It is rather amusing!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Unless your in combat, which can change things, I as a DM try to use both perception and sense motive as passive skills that I roll as I feel they are needed. There is still benefit from putting ranks into them but no need for constant player reminders that they are carefully checking every room or listening closely when the noble speaks.

I will give bonuses to rolls if a player tells me they are doing something beyond the norm during a time when a check is made or uses something to enhance their ability.

 

[frankthedm]

Sense Motive is an active skill - you need to declare its use to be able to benefit.

Except that "Bluff is an opposed skill check against your opponent’s Sense Motive skill."