Sequal Star Wars Trilogy News!

[John Crichton]

The focus of the original trilogy was Luke and his quest to overcome the evil of the Empire through becoming a Jedi.

That was one part of the story, but not the whole story.

 

[Kai Lord]

That was one part of the story, but not the whole story.

I didn't claim it was the whole story (once again, a third grader could tell you there are other things going on), I simply recognized it as the primary focus of the first three films.

 

[d4]

I didn't claim it was the whole story (once again, a third grader could tell you there are other things going on), I simply recognized it as the primary focus of the first three films.

i actually agree with both of you.

taken on their own, the OT is indeed focused primarily on Luke.

the entire saga, episodes 1-6 taken as a whole, is focused primarily on Anakin, IMO.

[edit: in other words, if you watch the OT in the context of the prequels, you are watching Anakin's redemption, not Luke's adventure.]

[2nd edit: i think Darth Vader becomes a much more interesting character now that we know where he comes from...]

or, one could say the Skywalkers are the focus -- that nets us Anakin, Luke, and Leia!

 

[Kai Lord]

i actually agree with both of you.

taken on their own, the OT is indeed focused primarily on Luke.

Yup.

the entire saga, episodes 1-6 taken as a whole, is focused primarily on Anakin, IMO.

And this I don't disagree with. Lucas is obviously using the prequels to paint a different overall picture than was originally intended. It was the claim that "the focus of Episodes 4-6 is the redemption of Anakin" that is simply false.

Even considering the new context of the prequels, the originals still don't suddenly become about Anakin's redemption. The second half of Return of the Jedi, sure. But Episodes 4 and 5 aren't anymore about his redemption than Episodes 1 and 2 are.

[2nd edit: i think Darth Vader becomes a much more interesting character now that we know where he comes from...]

I disagree. But Boba certainly is.

 

[Darrin Drader]

The latter, most assuredly. The focus of the original trilogy was Luke and his quest to overcome the evil of the Empire through becoming a Jedi. A third grader could tell you that, regardless of Lucas' revisionism and current fetish for the character of Anakin.

Well, lets face it, there was a fair amount of revisionism in the classic trilogy. Many people, including Lucas, have said that Leia was originally supposed to end up with Luke, not Han. This is one of the reasons Harrison Ford wanted Lucas to kill off Han. The only reason Leia was pencilled in as Luke's sister is because they needed some trigger to set Luke off in his final confrontation with Vader the the Emperor. It was convenient, so they went with it despite the fact that the first two movies were playing Luke and Han against each other for Leia's affections. Personally I think Luke did much better with the redhead, anyway.

As for what Lucas says the trilogy was about compared to what it really was about, well, there have been some works of literaure where the author debated the reviewers on the meaning of his or her work. According to Samuel Taylor Coleridge, the message of Rime of the Ancient Mariner was not about loving all the things that God made and he wished that he would have never put that line in the poem (and for those of you who don't know any better, the Rime of the Ancient Mariner was a classic poetic epic long before it was an Iron Maiden song).

My honest belief is that the focus was intended by Lucas to be about Anakin's redemption, but what he achieves is the creation of a modern myth centered around the heroic journey. As we have seen, many things Lucas does end up a little different than he intends.

I wonder if episode II would be more interesting if someone did an unauthorized edit.... *shrug*

 

[Kai Lord]

Well, lets face it, there was a fair amount of revisionism in the classic trilogy.

Very true. I just feel that stating what Lucas claims about the saga as a whole, or certain individual episodes in the alternate and current context of the whole without the appropriate disclaimer that the films constantly revise each other pushes a much superior story, that was literal canon for years and decades, under the rug.

I don't believe revisionism is inherently bad, for instance Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays reveals that "the notion of Vader being Luke's father first appeared in the second draft" of The Empire Strikes Back, not Star Wars.

In Star Wars Obi-Wan's tale of Vader killing Anakin was the literal truth. And its interesting to watch this film with that perspective (its the perspective we all had for three years after all).

But ESB's revision that Vader was Luke's father greatly improved the story, so I accept it as a worthy addition of the saga. However, if someone stated, "Lucas himself says that the focus of Star Wars is the first meeting of father and adult son" that would be incorrect without acknowledging that its a change implemented from ESB on.

I think its too bad that many people are so quick to just dismiss the original trilogy as "rough cuts" of this new saga, subject to revision, recutting, and subsequent dismissal.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I think its too bad that many people are so quick to just dismiss the original trilogy as "rough cuts" of this new saga, subject to revision, recutting, and subsequent dismissal.

Hey, maybe Lucas will decide that the prequels that we've seen so far were just rough cuts that are subject to revision. Think of it -- replace Jar Jar with C-3PO. Replace the scenes where Hayden Christen and Natalie Portman weren't bothering to act with shots where they were. Replace midichlorians with... well, anything. Replace pod racing with a kick butt space battle. Three or four revisions later and there might actually be good movies under all of that.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

replace Jar Jar with C-3PO.

I'd rather keep Jar-Jar, thank you very much. I've never been fond of Professor Goldenrod.

 

[Null Boundry]

No offence your showing your age there, still Powerslave was my first Iron Maiden album so we can be old together.

 

[John Crichton]

I prefer to look at the saga as whole, as I always have - but I can separate the trilogies for the purposes of debate.

Since I was one month old when the first movie came out I can say that there was no 3 year period of me thinking that Vader literally killed Anakin. I barely recall seeing Empire in the theater and I do remember seeing Jedi, when I was six.

Whatever the plan was, whatever was in an original draft doesn't matter to me. What does influence my opinion is what was actually on screen. From the very beginning, Vader and Luke had a connection beyond the fact that Vader supposedly killed his father. Foreshadowing is a wonderful tool and it is used subtly through the interactions of Vader and Obi-wan and their master/apprentice relationship. This relates to Luke directly and is revealed in the trench run at the end of the first film.

You can slice up the narrative as simply being about Luke's adventure to defeat evil but I believe that is missing the heart of the films. Star Wars is a special animal because it lends itself very well to serialization and additional stories. This was done on purpose. You could tell, without even having to know that Lucas was planning more films (or just by paying attention to the Episode VI tag in Jedi) that there was more the Luke saga which included Anakin, Obi-wan, Yoda and the Emperor.

In Star Wars: A New Hope, we meet The Hero (Luke) and his companions. Darth Vader is X-factor at this point as we are lead to believe that Tarkin is the main villain of the saga where he really isn't (that would be Palpatine). A New Hope is easily Luke's movie, and it has to be for the character to make any sense. We Vader as an antagonist but know there is more to this character than we are being shown, because it is Luke's movie and it has to focus on him.

In Star Wars: The Empire Strike Back, we still see our hero and his companions but we are introduced to the mastermind, Palpatine, and see much more of Vader in action. We are also introduced to Yoda, the last remaining creature alive who can teach one in the ways of the Jedi: the teacher figure to take over for the dead Obi-wan, who's role must be filled. We learn that there is even more of a relation between Luke and Vader over the course of the film and then at the end it is brutally confirmed. Here is where we see that Anakin has fallen and is continuing to fall.

Star Wars: Return of the Jedi brings us the redemption and the completion of the cycle to which we are missing the rise of Anakin. Leia is revealed as being much more than we thought she was in the fact that she is a Skywalker. This lends itself well to further serialization as you could see Luke and Leia trying to fix what their father did (which is debatable). We see Vader finally do the right thing and see a bit what he was like as Anakin in his love for his son.

So there is a good amount going on in all 3 films but it boils down to Anakin's redemption, which is spurred on by Luke and his belief in his father. The only way this works is by Vader redeeming himself by killing Palpatine and becoming Anakin once more, which kills him - he sacrifices himself for his son and the greater good. The redemption happens at the very end, but it is at the heart of the story. A man's soul is saved and good wins the day.

No where in there is any material from the prequels. There is something to be said for each movie in the original trilogy building on and making the previous film(s) better and more robust - which just happens to hold true for the prequels as well.

I think too many folks focus on what writers, producers and directors say should have or what originally was supposed to happen in plots. I'm all for that but I find it's best to go on the actual product for purposes of debate concerning story.

So, Star Wars is many things. It is the story of a hero defeating the ultimate evil. It is a war story that focuses on a small group of people aiming for the same goal. It is the story of 2 people finding each other amidst the chaos. But it is ultimately about redemption which is the theme of all three. Without redemption, Han doesn't come back to save Luke's bacon, Yoda doesn't train the one person who will reach Anakin, Lando doesn't blow up the second Death Star, Obi-wan doesn't help obsolve the biggest failing in his life and Anakin doesn't kill Palpatine.