Setting against a charge/standard attack

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm going to disagree with the above, in the interest of making readied actions actually useful.

Readied actions are still quite useful without making them free.

A "set vs. a charge" is nothing more than an attack readied against someone who approaches you. If they happen to be charging, you get the bonus to damage. If they aren't charging, you merely get a normal attack (followed, of course, by the AoO for leaving your threatened square).

The person charging has a choice to make. Either they can charge and get extra damage, but open themselves up to being readied against, or they can just move up. Your ruling screws the charger every time.

IMO, readying an action requires a condition as specific as using a Contingency. Feel free to use "and" in your statement, but no "or"s.

For reference. From the SRD:

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

Readying a Weapon against a Charge: You can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

 

[Henrix]

Hmmmm…Well, if the choices are “only vs. a charge”, and “good vs. charge or move and attack”, why would anyone choose the first?

To save the readied action against the charging barbarian? Perhaps the dwarven barbarian standing next to you'll be sore if you kill the orc that is charging him?

There is no "default readied action". Whenever you want to ready an action you, as Lord Pendragon aptly quoted, "specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it".
That is, you tell the DM what you want to do, and when. If the important bit is hitting the first one to enter your threatened area, then ready an action to do that. If you want to make sure noone charges you without getting a double damage whammy, then you'll have to ready an action to attack the first enemy who charges you.

 

[William_2]

“Your ruling screws the charger every time”. Well, keep in mind that this is a scenario where the charger LOST initiative, and the charged has readied an action rather than simply attack first.
So, the question might be: “Is there any reason the readying combatant should not go first if the targeted foe moves to the space specified in the ready action?”

Those SRD posts highlight exactly what confuses me- you ready an action...but setting refers to readying the weapon, not the attack. I don’t know quite how to sort them out, and was hoping that somewhere in the rules there was another reference besides these ones- but it looks like there may not be.

I think that if readying a weapon vs. a charge can be negated if the opponent instead just walks over, then there may be almost no utility for setting, and the character should simply ready a standard attack. I don’t think whether an opponent charges or not should in any way negate that type of readied action, which I think is amply specific. However, it is open to argument...
Thanks!

 

[William_2]

I think some of the above is interesting. I was really imagining a situation where there is only one opponent, actually. So, if I set my weapon against the specific foe, and they do not charge, but instead run up, does my readied attack against that specific foe take effect? I am leaning now towards saying yes to that situation, although I can see arguing it.

The more complicated examples, where the set is not against a specific foe...I can see much easier there the approach taken above. I still wonder if someone who wins initiative and readies an attack should be penalized if they guess wrong on the charge/move choice. The example of a group of foes both moving and charging is interesting, though, I agree with that.

How does a character select betwen readying against a charge and against a move-and-attack, though? Does a character know about those game mechanics? Should not "I wait and hit the first person who approaches with my set spear" fucition effectively regardless of which game option that foe uses to move? Just a thought. I know mapping these choices on to realistic decisions is not a great way to go, I just wonder if in this case it might help.
Thanks!

 

[Henrix]

Lets see if we can untwist this:

So, if I set my weapon against the specific foe, and they do not charge, but instead run up, does my readied attack against that specific foe take effect?

Yes, if the wording of your readied action allows it, like "I ready to attack him if he gets where I reach him".
You only deal double damage if he charges, of course.
You don't have to take a specific sort of readied action to get double damage against a charging foe with a spear. As long as you have an attack ready against a charging foe you deal double damage.

How does a character select betwen readying against a charge and against a move-and-attack, though? Does a character know about those game mechanics?

But it's the player, not the character who formulates the readied action.
The character does not know what a ready action, set spear, roll to hit, or whatever is.
Nor does a character with power attack know the difference between choosing to take -2 to hit and -5. That is up to the player.

Should not "I wait and hit the first person who approaches with my set spear" fucition effectively regardless of which game option that foe uses to move?

It does (but unless the foe charges you don't get double damage). And sometimes that (hitting the first person) might not be what the player wants, so she would have to specify a different condition. For instance if she thinks the friendly cleric will approach to heal her before the enemies act.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Either they can charge and get extra damage

There's no extra damage on a charge.

 

[William_2]

“Yes, if the wording of your readied action allows it, like "I ready to attack him if he gets where I reach him".
You only deal double damage if he charges, of course.
You don't have to take a specific sort of readied action to get double damage against a charging foe with a spear. As long as you have an attack ready against a charging foe you deal double damage.”

This is the way I am leaning, too, rather than the earlier idea which seems to me to be the opposite take:

“If the important bit is hitting the first one to enter your threatened area, then ready an action to do that. If you want to make sure noone charges you without getting a double damage whammy, then you'll have to ready an action to attack the first enemy who charges you.”

Now that we have kicked it around a bit, I don’t think someone canny enough to ready an action should also have to guess whether a charge or a move is used to trigger their attack. As it is, this hardly ever seems to occur, so making it more restrictive than necessary seems...ah, redundant.
Thanks muchly for the help!

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's no extra damage on a charge.

Oh, there are so many ways...

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Oh, there are so many ways...

Eh?

Or do you mean that the +2 on your to hit rolls improves your chances of hitting, and therefore your expected damage increases?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Eh?

Or do you mean that the +2 on your to hit rolls improves your chances of hitting, and therefore your expected damage increases?

Rhino Hide Armor.
Spirited Charge.
Power Lunge.
etc, etc.

There are lots of ways to increase damage when charging.

-Hyp.