Stories based on sexism can be interesting, but so can stories not based on sexism.
If we can come up with stories and tropes and roles and campaign worlds that are just as good but don't express sexism as the norm, I think that would be much better.
That's basically my take on it. If someone can't make creative stories without being sexist, in my book they aren't particularly creative.
Hey shilsen -- just as a caveat, I don't necessarily agree with your premises, but mostly because I don't really run into sexism on a regular basis. This is probably due largely to where I currently live.
Interesting. Where do you live?
But, there is one area where I am willing to admit that sexism runs rampant, which is language. I'm not really talking about pronoun use here -- I'm talking about the following sentence:
"The kobolds went berserk and killed his neighbor's wife!"
It takes awhile to figure out why this is sexist, unfortunately, because it feels like a completely natural sentence construction. I'd ask you to add "watch your language" to your list of solutions, but to be honest, even recognizing that you're saying something with a hidden sexist viewpoint is very difficult. But I thought I'd throw that in.
Nice example. And yes, watching and thinking about one's use of language is an important element, so thanks for the reminder. One of the most important elements, IMNSHO, precisely because it is so easy (as you note) to miss when one is being sexist via language.
I don't agree, because in my opinion, language is the filter with which you construct and interpret culture.
Unsurprisingly, I agree (especially since I teach English and deal a lot with issues of language). I think a lot of people think of language as something which simply expresses their thoughts, and don't realize how the use of language also mediates, constructs and interprets those thoughts.
But regardless of whether I agree or not, you're not going to solve economic and societal sexism in a Dungeons and Dragons game. I was just pointing out something that irritates me that pertains to the fundamentally narrative nature of D&D as an RPG. If you're concerned about sexism in what is a subset of a subset of society, it's probably worth paying attention to the essential mechanism of communication.
As noted above, I agree.
I don't think language is the source of the problem, but I do think that language expresses society's way of thinking.
And, as I was saying above, subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) affects society's way of thinking, hence its importance.
Academia spends time and effort on concerns of language, because they think they matter... and they might as well since they generally don't directly set public policy like politicians and government bureaucrats, they don't set company-wide compensation policies like company managers and HR departments. Academics do, however, often have a great influence on educational policy and teaching methods. And there, they can influence how we think about the world around us, arguably the most difficult aspect of tackling gender bias and discrimination. There's nothing saying we can't make headway on all of these issues.
Agreed, and not just because I'm an academic, since I tend to be fairly leery of many things which are taken for granted in academia.
When it comes to politically correct speech, I notice that critics don't seem to notice that their own objections often come down to another form of politically correct speech. It's just that the political program they emphasize is not what you would consider traditionally "political" but one about upholding a conservative view of language standards, one that takes the practice of the language at some fixed point in the past before the academic feminists started working at it and makes that fixed point prescriptive.
That's a very good point. People who decry political correctness as ideological rarely take into account exactly how ideological (and exclusionary) their own positions are.
It may be that the sexism inherent in language, turns of phrase, and so on is passive compared to the active sexism that causes women to make less money for the same work as men. But does that mean it should be ignored?
I'm not sure what you meant by that.
To clarify what I meant: behavior is the result of education, whether it's formal or just what you hear from the ones around you. Sexist behavior is what we are objecting to in this thread. If we change the language or enforce equal wages, we will only be dealing with the effects of this behavior.
As billd91 notes above, just because something is a symptom of a behavior doesn't mean one shouldn't address it too. Plus sexism (like most -isms) doesn't just flow in one direction, but is a cyclical and self-perpetuating system. The existence of sexist language and unequal wages isn't only a symptom, but helps reinforce a sexist status quo and enables people to think that its acceptable.
This is interesting, but not entirely true.
Which is worse, calling a man a "bastard" or calling a man a "bitch"? (And let's not even get into the C-word.)
The word matters. And the words that are the biggest insults for men are the words that imply they are womanish.
True. I think some of the comments earlier on this thread (and page) about how insults don't have a sexist component are shortsighted at best, and disingenuous in certain ways.
Language matters, in many different ways, and claiming it doesn't matter is a very common tactic, both among those who honestly believe it and among those who know better (but want to dismiss it). And it's shocking, I know, but these people -- both groups -- are pretty much always men.
Or at least predominantly so, I'd say. I think this is part of the whole issue of people who are empowered or privileged by the status quo attempting (sometimes quite honestly, which doesn't make it more excusable, of course) to argue that the status quo is egalitarian. Yeah, right!
Am I to understand that the language we hear around us is part of our education? I agree. It would seem then that language is not only a symptom but also part of the cause; which leads me to believe that watching one’s language is not such a waste of time as others here make it out to be.
If you meant something else then please clarify.
Funnily enough, you stated earlier that changing language is only changing the effects of sexist behavior. As indicated above, I agree with what you say here much more. Language, like many other aspects of sexism, is both symptom and cause. And needs to be addressed.
