Shield Bashing

[reiguarani]

I have several questions here, so please bear with me.

First of all, does the Two Weapon Fighting feat affect shield bash attacks? If not, why not? A shield is treated as a one-handed martial bludgeoning weapon and is an off-hand weapon (per shield descriptions in the PH, 125).

Secondly, does Agile Shield Fighting stack with Two Weapon Fighting?

The feat description for ASF says that the penalties on each attack are -2, and that "these penalties replace the normal ones" (PH2, 74).
The feat description for TWF, however, says that the penalties are "reduced," and that the "primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6" (PH, 102). This is a reduction in penalty, not a replacement.

So, if I take ASF and then TWF, would they stack, and what would my attack rolls be if they do?

 

[BASHMAN]

Yes, you can use TWF with a shield. A shield is treated as a light weapon for TWF.

Agile shield fighter gives you -2/-2 penalty on your attacks. Period. It cannot stack w/TWF. The only reason this feat exists is for Knights, Paladins, and Clerics with low dex scores to be able to get an offhand attack with their shields. They miss out on all the nifty feats that branch off of TWF, but the nifty new Shield feats in PH2 make up for this.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

A light shield is treated as a light weapon, a heavy shield is treated as a one-handed weapon.

 

[Darklone]

Yes, you can use TWF with a shield. A shield is treated as a light weapon for TWF.

Agile shield fighter gives you -2/-2 penalty on your attacks. Period. It cannot stack w/TWF. The only reason this feat exists is for Knights, Paladins, and Clerics with low dex scores to be able to get an offhand attack with their shields. They miss out on all the nifty feats that branch off of TWF, but the nifty new Shield feats in PH2 make up for this.

I agree... yet the last discussion here didn't.

Is there some errata or FAQ now about this strange feat?

And someone might be able to explain to me why a feat made for dexless dudes is called "agile"...

 

[Bagpuss]

First of all, does the Two Weapon Fighting feat affect shield bash attacks?

It does.

A shield is treated as a one-handed martial bludgeoning weapon and is an off-hand weapon (per shield descriptions in the PH, 125).

It does not have to be off-hand (that was covered in the FAQ) it can be your primary attack if you wish. Light shields are a light weapon, Heavy shields are one handed. Spiked Shields makes them a Piercing weapon, going up one size category for damage only. The Bashing enhancement can be added increasing a shield by two size categories for damage (this stacks with spiked according to the FAQ).

Secondly, does Agile Shield Fighting stack with Two Weapon Fighting?

Probably shouldn't but as written it probably should. Really it's up to your DM, IMHO most sensible DMs will rule that it doesn't even though technically it should, because of what you pointed out. One replaces the standard TWF penalties (ASF), the other reduces penalties for TWF (TWF the feat). I'm sure if WotC were doing errata it would be reworded so that it clearly didn't stack, you never know when you pay for you DI, you might find an errata in there.

So, if I take ASF and then TWF, would they stack, and what would my attack rolls be if they do?

-0/-0 (which is probably why they shouldn't)

If you just want to be able to do the odd Shield Bash and don't have decent DEX then Agile Shield Figther is feat to get. If you intend to make your Shield Bash your primary attack, (and with a +1 Heavy Spiked Shield of Bashing doing 2d6+1 damage there are good reasons to do that), then have a light weapon in your other hand, and go the TWF route. You can also benefit from Phalanax Fighting.

 

[reiguarani]

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Bagpuss]

I considered both when designing a Knight/Fighter character and in the end decided to go for neither, although I might pick-up Agile Shield Fighter later on. This let me have more feats for things like Shield Charge (trip on a charge attack), Shield Ward (Shield AC verse touch attacks), Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.

I figure if you are using a shield, damage output isn't your primary concern, otherwise you'd use a two handed weapon. So I looked a feats that improved my AC or gave me other combat options other than just doing damage.

 

[armac]

I've never really given much thought to Shield Bashing, but last week some players in my game used it. I guess this thread gives me a chance to ask a couple of questions based on that session.

Since the Shield is treated as a weapon, can it be drawn by someone with a positive BAB as part of a move? And if the character has TWF, can they draw it at the same time that they draw their sword?

Also, can a Sheild Bash be used to make Attacks of Opportunity?

 

[Bagpuss]

Since the Shield is treated as a weapon, can it be drawn by someone with a positive BAB as part of a move?

From the SRD

Ready or Loose a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or loose a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.

Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.

And if the character has TWF, can they draw it at the same time that they draw their sword?

That would be a yes IMHO. Although it could depend on how your DM is about how many free actions you can take in a turn, you've a strong case rules wise.

Technically you could do that without TWF feat. Since drawing a weapon would be one free action and readying a shield would be another, and there is no limit on the number of free actions you can take.

Also, can a Shield Bash be used to make Attacks of Opportunity?

Yes.

 

[armac]

Thanks for the answers.