Shield Charge equivalent?

[James McMurray]

You can't charge and Spring Attack. Also, even if you could why would your opponent not get to you to retaliate? Is he not allowed to charge as well?

 

[Krafen]

How is a wooden shield with spikes cast on it superior to a wooden club with spikes cast on it?

 

[Mistwell]

How is a wooden shield with spikes cast on it superior to a wooden club with spikes cast on it?

The shield gets the advantage of feats like improved shield bash, shield charge, and divine shield. A wooden club does not (though it does have the benefit of being eligible for a Shillelagh spell).

You can't charge and Spring Attack. Also, even if you could why would your opponent not get to you to retaliate? Is he not allowed to charge as well?

Well if you find cover, or turn a corner, it would be difficult for your opponant to charge back at you. True, it would be more effective with the boots of striding and springing, and even more fast-move feats like Sprint and/or Dash, some levels in Monk, spells like expeditious retreat, Flight, or Levitation. There are lots of options that allow you to get out of the movement-reach of an opponant, the trick is using them while also getting a charge in there yourself. And that's probably why you cannot use spring attack with a charge (though I seem to recall seeing an argument on the subject here on EnWorld quite some time back).

 

[radferth]

2 shield troll

I remember a troll in an old Runequest module that used two shields. It hurt his offense, but made for great defense (weapon durability was quite important in RQ, and shields were quite durable). Not any direct bearing on shield charge, just an example of a guy using two shields and looking stupid for it, but he does it because his job was to serve as a wall for his spellcasting employer.

 

[Krafen]

I should have been more clear. If you are concerned about looking silly with a shield on each arm, why not use a club and a wooden shield. Both can have spikes cast on them. That way you have the standard weapon/shield combo.

 

[James McMurray]

Well if you find cover, or turn a corner, it would be difficult for your opponant to charge back at you. True, it would be more effective with the boots of striding and springing, and even more fast-move feats like Sprint and/or Dash, some levels in Monk, spells like expeditious retreat, Flight, or Levitation. There are lots of options that allow you to get out of the movement-reach of an opponant, the trick is using them while also getting a charge in there yourself. And that's probably why you cannot use spring attack with a charge (though I seem to recall seeing an argument on the subject here on EnWorld quite some time back).

Even if you can preventthem from charging you, you can't prevent them from moving towards you. If you have boots of striding and springing you can get far enough away, but you then have to move that same speed to reach them again.

Also, they could always just ready an attack for when you get within 15'. Then, when you get near, they charge with their readied action. If they hit you, they are ahead on damage (and will win if even trades continue). If they trip you, your spring attack is ruined and they can full attack you on their next turn. If they disarm you, your spring attack is ruined, and they can full attack you on their next turn (or force you to move away at the very least).

Spring attack is great in some instances, but unless your movement rate greatly outmatches your foes or you have a wall of friends to run in and out of, Spring attck is nearly useless in the standard use I see it being given: move in and attack, then move to safety. At least, it is nearly useless against and intelligent foe.

 

[0-hr]

So the short answer is "No, there is no equivalent feat for non-shield weapons." You might note that I did not entitle this thread "Shield Charge is BROKEN!", so please just relax. I just wanted to know if there was a sound tactical reason for a player to chose a normal melee weapon over a shield for their primary weapon. The answer is, fairly clearly, "Not if there is someone around to cast Spikes every morning."

Given that, I feel justified in adding a House Rule to disuade the would-be shield charger. Simply making Spikes and Shield Charge not work together sounds like the best solution so far.

 

[AuraSeer]

Simply making Spikes and Shield Charge not work together sounds like the best solution so far.

Yes! I win! Woooooo!

 

[reapersaurus]

Ki Ryn - you evaded my questions.

So your stance is that unless there is an equivalent feat for non-shield weapons, than you will HouseRule it?

Regardless of the other points that we brought up that you avoided?

Well then - here, how bout this one:
There IS a feat for non-shield weapons.
It's called Spirited Charge - ever heard of it?

It gives double damage to ALL weapons used from horseback.

Have you HouseRuled that feat chain to make it uneffective?

After all - EVERY fighter type would be doing it, since it's obviously superior to using a normal weapon.

 

[0-hr]

Ki Ryn - you evaded my questions.

It's called Spirited Charge - ever heard of it?

The only question that you asked was "What is your problem with this weapon?" I believe that I've stated my concerns already.

I have indeed heard of Spirited Charge. If that feat did not also apply to shields, then it would be a valid alternative to using a wooden shield as a primary weapon.