D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Hussar]

I can roleplay a rock. That doesn't mean that I want to. Being able to roleplay it isn't the same as liking it. A half-elf without half-elf mechanics is lipstick on a pig. You are an elf or human, not a half-elf.

That’s the point though.

There aren’t any half elf mechanics.

Nothing a half elf gets in any way indicates a half elf. Dragonborn get a breath weapon. Tieflings hell ish rebuke. Even halflings are lucky.

A half elf gets the same thing you get with every single background. Two skills. Because nothing says I’m a half elf like proficiency in athletics.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Half elves(and humans) used to have their floating modifiers as their thing that set them apart, making them actually versatile like their narrative claims in the landscape of fixed ASIs but well, when you give that to everyone else too...

Edit: of course now that we’ve reapplied semi-fixed ASI in the form of background ASI maybe we can bring that advantage back ‘your diverse experience means you can apply your background ASI to any of your six stats’

 

[Mecheon]

Why is it so important to you to force half-elves into some sort of blah zone?

I'll drag this one up first: I don't want to give up one of the races we have at the moment. I don't think half elves are more important than the 10 races we have at the moment

I respect that half elves are important to folks and they want them back, but I'm not willing to give up what we have for them to shove out one of the new, interesting options we have. I especially don't want to lose a mechanically unique option for a blend of two already existing ones

Because that's the reality of half elves coming back in the PHB. We'd lose something else.

Thri-kreen are not why people have been asking for Dark Sun. At least not a primary reason. I'm not even sure it makes top 5.

They're popular enough and the main race people want from there, with folks saying it and psionics were the main issues preventing it. There's absolutely far more Thri-kreen fans than there are half giant or mul fans

You can keep repeating that, but it won't ever make it true. The half-elf 1) is not a power race, and 2) only has charisma bonus as it's "power." The thing is, tieflings, aasimar and yuan-ti also have +2, and several more have +1(which is all you need if you roll an odd number). Most of those races also do not crack the top 10, despite also being "power" races, and many with more powerful actual racial abilities.

The half-elf numbers are not skewed by the charisma bonus or all the others would be as well.

I mean, do you want to debate this with the folks who do all of the character build stuff for 5E because, for the past 10 years, they've been saying half elves actually are a power race. Its not just the charisma bonus: you pick half elf with Customising your Origin and rather than the +2 +1 most races get, you actually get +2, +1 and an extra +1. Even if you don't have that, a guaranteed +2 in charisma and then a +1 in two other stats of your choice means you're a lot more flexible than some other races

Yeah, Yuan Ti's magic resist is stronger (its even more powerful if you grab satyr instead), but the one data point we have is D&D Beyond which seems to prefer PHB sstuff and has a incredibly low amount of custom race uptick. Perhaps a suspiciously low amount, which calls in the data being valid question from earlier

 

[Mind of tempest]

So we can get rid of elf lineages, dragonborn ancestries, and tiefling legacies?

God, yes.

there should only be two types of elves moving forward, elves who build cities and the elves who like living in the wilds, as those seem to be the only types of elves.

 

[GreyLord]

I respect that half elves are important to folks and they want them back, but I'm not willing to give up what we have for them to shove out one of the new, interesting options we have. I especially don't want to lose a mechanically unique option for a blend of two already existing ones

Because that's the reality of half elves coming back in the PHB. We'd lose something else.

Not necessarily....you can make them unique in some way.

For example...for Half-Elves you could say something like...

Ability to blend in - Being part of two different cultures has made it so that you've had to learn to adapt on the fly in many occasions. Because of this when you are interacting with others you can get advantage on checks dealing with diplomacy and deception. (optional) You also get advantage on Performance checks.

Increase variety - Because of your growing up in multiple groups with different understandings, your ability to master multiple arenas of action are reflected in your very being. Because of this, the pre-requisites for multiclassing are reduced by 2 (so if you would need a STR of 13 and an INT of 13...you would only need a STR of 11 and an INT of 11).

See...and thus you suddenly have a unique race with unique abilities. Of course, the above could apply to the Half-orc as well...so a little bit more thought should probably be put into it, but I came up with this in about 5 minutes without a ton of thought, so I'm certain those who think on it more could do better.

 

[Remathilis]

there should only be two types of elves moving forward, elves who build cities and the elves who like living in the wilds, as those seem to be the only types of elves.

I'd prefer elves that live above ground and elves that live below.

 

[Mecheon]

Not necessarily....you can make them unique in some way.

They're never going to be unique though, they're half elves. They've been a mix of elf and human in every edition except 4E.

Why should we lose a fully formed race for half elves? Just nostalgia?

I'd prefer elves that live above ground and elves that live below.

As above, so below

(though I do think the High/Wood/Dark split is probably the easiest to handle, each have their individual Thing)

 

[Maxperson]

That’s the point though.

There aren’t any half elf mechanics.

Nothing a half elf gets in any way indicates a half elf. Dragonborn get a breath weapon. Tieflings hell ish rebuke. Even halflings are lucky.

A half elf gets the same thing you get with every single background. Two skills. Because nothing says I’m a half elf like proficiency in athletics.

Yes there are. Those half-elf mechanics are a bit of human mechanics and a bit of elf mechanics.

The above do indicate half-elf and also half-human.

And no, there are no backgrounds that will allow you 4 background skills. The two half-elves get are for race, and they ALSO get the background. So it looks like this.

Dragonborn cleric with folk hero background:
2 skills from history, insight, medicine, persuasion, and religion.
2 skills that are animal handling and survival.

4 skills total.

Half-elf cleric with folk hero background:
2 skills of choice from race.
2 skills from history, insight, medicine, persuasion, and religion.
2 skills that are animal handling and survival.

6 skills total.

There no background that can allow the 2 bonus half-elf skills, because the half-elf also gets a background.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i know people want there to be complete species mixing, but what are opinions of if half elves/orcs existed as part of the human's subspecies options rather than occupying their own spot in the selection? would that be acceptable as a compromise of inclusion vs redundancy downsizing for people? they get to escape 'pick the human/elf/orc mechanics and just lie about their narrative reskin' swapping out heroic inspiration with a few alternative mechanics to fit their own bloodline's flavour.

 

[Remathilis]

i know people want there to be complete species mixing, but what are opinions of if half elves/orcs existed as part of the human's subspecies options rather than occupying their own spot in the selection? would that be acceptable as a compromise of inclusion vs redundancy downsizing for people? they get to escape 'pick the human/elf/orc mechanics and just lie about their narrative reskin' swapping out heroic inspiration with a few alternative mechanics to fit their own bloodline's flavour.

I considered an elf-ancestry and orc-ancestry origin feat that only humans can take. Since humans get a bonus origin feat, they swap that bonus feat for either darkvision and fey ancestry (elf) or darkvision and relentless endurance (orc). They still get their origin feat from background.